September 25, 2023 at 5:49 pm #234579blingboyParticipantPaid - Annual
Assuming the 2024 starting lineup are already in the organization, then either Donovan has to be an everyday regular or Goldschmidt will be batting second a lot. Their just isn’t anybody else to pair with Nootbaar at the top of the order. There are various ways that could be done and I have no idea what Mo and the gang will do. If it was me, I’d put Donovan in LF and Noot in RF, with WAlker DH. I know, I know, but winning is a higher priority that Walker developing his defense on company time.September 25, 2023 at 7:35 pm #234581forsch31ParticipantFree
Winn after approximately 105 PAs at AAA: .211/.265/.295/.560.
Winn after 498 PAs at AAA: .288/.359/.474/.834.
Winn at Peoria after 154 PAs: .210/.240/.304/.544.
Winn at Peoria after 301 PAs: .274/.320/.426/.746
Winn never really had an adjustment period at AA.
I think we need to give him a chance. He has shown an ability to adjust when given the time.September 25, 2023 at 7:49 pm #234582
Thank you for that effort LAcard. It’s good to have the D numbers available for those who use them.
Whatever the D metrics conclude, they won’t sway my eye at all, not about players I see regularly.
Winn vs O’Neill or Carlson. I guess it’s Winn for me. Even if O’Neill / Carlson could combine for a full season in 2024, of 100 ops+, I think Noot, Edman, Walker, Donovan (DH) have the outfield covered, maybe Palacios as a fourth.
I’d prefer a O’Neill Non-tendered, his arb3 going towards pitching, and Carlson optioned down a month to play some games first. Be a good depth piece to put in play when need arose.September 25, 2023 at 10:00 pm #234583
Edman’s undoubtedly proven that he’s more than a viable option in CF, but I think most would agree that his ideal defensive placement is at either of the two middle IF positions.September 25, 2023 at 10:23 pm #234585forsch31ParticipantFree
I would agree that Edman is probably the best 2Bman on the roster, defensively. I would put him 2nd best SS on the roster, defensively. I don’t think the team suffers with Gorman or Donovan at 2nd. Edman might be the best CFer on the roster, defensively.
It is good that Edman is so good at that many defensive positions. He is not in the lineup because his bat is irreplaceable. He is basically a league average bat.September 25, 2023 at 10:38 pm #234586
Forsch31’s set of numbers demonstrate that, providing Winn is part of the 26 man to start next season, it’ll be early June before any preliminary judgment can be made on his ability to hit Big League pitching. At that time he should have accumulated around 350 to 400 PA’s while standing in a Big League batter’s box if he’s indeed the everyday Redbird SS.September 25, 2023 at 10:43 pm #234587
If it was me, I’d put Donovan in LF and Noot in RF, with WAlker DH.
Agreed. If you are going to try to lure free agent pitchers in the offseason, you can’t tell them that Walker is your starting RF. You have to tell them he is moved to DH.September 25, 2023 at 11:58 pm #234588
As long as we’re talking about SS’s, defense and pitchers, not too long ago I was watching some amazing defensive highlights devoted to one player and there’s no doubt in my mind that Greg Maddux could have been a mulitple GG winning SS. This guy was no joke with the mitt. He certainly would have gone down as the SS with the greatest arm of all time…Haha!September 26, 2023 at 6:56 am #234593Brian WaltonKeymasterPaid - Annual
LACF, do you really think who plays right field would be an important part of any free agent pitcher’s decision on where to sign? The years and the money are what matters most by a huge degree. Next might be the competitiveness of the team and the location to bring one’s family.
While it is very reasonable to discuss whether Walker’s OF learning should be on an MLB field, it is a huge stretch to think it is going to matter to pitchers in free agency. Not buying it.September 26, 2023 at 8:14 am #234598
I hope they take the slow timeline with Carlson returning.
We have 3 more seasons of Dylans club control, he is halfway to free agency. His trade value has bottomed with “potential” propping it up. An equal value trade brings the same in return. “Throw in” value at present.
He needs a do-over and I hope it’s not a change of scenery. Edman, Nootbaar and Carlson is very deep CF depth defensively, even if Dylan is the 4th OF. It’s necessary, to keep starters on the OF corners.
Again, enough with the Burly, O’Neill, Yepez, Mercado carousel on the corner OF. None of them bench Donovan if he’s 100%.
I’m wanting to believe Donovan will be available opening day, since I haven’t read otherwise. Any updates would be appreciated.September 26, 2023 at 8:21 am #234600Cardinal in FranceParticipantFree
Play Walker at DH and he will never get any better in the outfield, and of course you lose DH as an occasional semi-rest spot for aging starters, if that is your philosophy.
On the other hand, may the person who invented the DH concept be forever toasting his marshmallows with the Evil One.September 26, 2023 at 9:21 am #234605Brian WaltonKeymasterPaid - Annual
I’m wanting to believe Donovan will be available opening day, since I haven’t read otherwise. Any updates would be appreciated.
That is what we were told and it is represented as such in our Monday morning StL Notebook. What matters, however, is in the future – how his offseason rehab goes. There likely won’t be any real new news about that until January when we see him at Winter Warm-Up and can ask him directly.
Nobody has mentioned it, but his (and any injured player’s) recovery being a question mark until he proves he is ok in the spring could be a contributor to him not being traded this winter.September 26, 2023 at 12:26 pm #234613
Any trade of Donovan for less than full value would be a major error. I hope BillyMo values him as we do.September 26, 2023 at 3:29 pm #234621
LACF, do you really think who plays right field would be an important part of any free agent pitcher’s decision on where to sign?
I believe pitchers will look at:
2. Playing time
3. Chances of winning
4. Whether the organization can help them improve
All else equal, a pitcher will choose the Dodgers over the Cardinals, because they have a better chance at winning and the the Dodgers are known for helping pitchers improve.
Jordan Walker in the outfield hurts your chances of winning and risks hurting your ERA, since he has only been charged about one-third the errors he has committed.
The Cardinals, as an organization, are not known for helping pitchers learn new pitches or change their usage.September 26, 2023 at 4:06 pm #234625gscottarParticipantFree
Donovan should not be traded at all.September 26, 2023 at 4:09 pm #234626gscottarParticipantFree
And if the goal is to compete for a championship next year, then I would argue the Cardinals should trade Walker, Winn, Burleson & Hence to the Royals for Bobby Witt, Jr.
That would be an incredibly lopsided trade in favor of the Royals.
Using the BTV trade simulator:
Witt Jr.- 80.8September 26, 2023 at 9:20 pm #234637
Yes, it would be lopsided, but sometimes you have to overpay to get substantial upgrades. The Royals have to explain to their fans why they are giving up a cost-controlled star. It has to be an overpay.
And it probably wouldn’t be those four specifically. I doubt the Royals would want Burleson. We’d probably have to substitute somebody for him.
BTV is also not necessarily how the front offices evaluate things.September 27, 2023 at 10:15 am #234663
Front offices value control years very highly, and we’re giving up a 5 to 1 ratio with this proposal.
The near minimum seasons of possible core players we would trade in this proposal, is important to how we afford pitching going forward.
I see a front office red flag for us.
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