2023 StL Game #13: Thursday, April 13 vs. Bucs

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  • #216562
    Euro Dandy
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    Bad inning for Contreras catching the ball — turned a couple strikes into balls. Then a passed ball (which maybe should’ve been scored a WP, but poor effort nonetheless) by Contreras and Stratton doesn’t cover home plate when runner scores from 3B. To be consistent, Oli has to call out somebody in the post game presser for that display of casual energy.

    #216563
    1toughdominican
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    Yeah, when you bail and leave early you always run the risk of listening to an improbable comeback on the car radio.

    #216564
    1toughdominican
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    Pretty nice turn for Monte, but not too much else to be happy about other than there’s a game tomorrow night.

    #216565
    1982 willie
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    Yea Monty pitched great. Bullpen was horrible. Getting shutout at home is not a good look for us. Hopefully a harbinger of things to come in this series.

    #216566
    1982 willie
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    Sorry I meant not a harbinger of things to come. Don’t get the chance to see a lot of games and one I do, our hitting stinks, I just need some sleep

    #216567
    1toughdominican
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    Yeah, I need to sleep this game off too, Willie…Take care!

    #216568
    ZTR
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    2-1 in the second 10.

    Starting to regret the Contreras signing. He’s pretty bad behind the plate.

    #216577
    blingboy
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    Rather uninspiring outfield D has become usual.

    Walker is a 20 year old infielder who came up from AA, so I can’t say he is disappointing out there. He is too tentative whenever he’s heading toward the stands or the wall, gets turned around too much, and generally does not play MLB caliber outfield defense. But, considering that he is a bat first guy anyway, is it reasonable to expect him to at this point? We will see what he looks like by the end of the season.

    O’Neill is not a center fielder. I’m sorry, but no. I do not like his play against the wall at all.

    Burleson meets expectation, which is not high. Its not an inspiring level of play.

    There are Carlson and Noot lurking in the wings. There is the option of going O’Neill, Carlson, Noot, left to right, and Walker DH. That would correct the outfield defense deficiency. It would create an issue fitting Gorman into the lineup regularly.

    I hesitate to commit blasphemy, but Donny could man short with Gorman at second. A step back for middle infield but potentially better offense. Donny would step up I am sure, but he would not equal Edman’s defense. Gorman would not equal Donovan’s.

    #216578
    ZTR
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    The Cardinals have lost the first game of all 5 series so far this season….

    #216582
    1toughdominican
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    I’d much rather take a step back in the OF than middle IF. I think the simple solution is to place Walker in LF and I can’t for the life of me conlude why he wasn’t manned up at that position from the onset. In my view, it’s by far an easier position to patrol than is RF for several different reasons.

    #216585
    gscottar
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    I would go Walker in LF, Carlson in CF, Noot in RF, with O’Neill on the trade block.

    Gorman stays at DH until Edman is eventually traded, which he probably will be next winter to make room for Winn.

    #216588
    Oliver
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    I agree a 100% gscott.

    #216589
    blingboy
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    And then there is what’s actually going to happen, which is three out of position players in he outfield.

    #216590
    blingboy
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    Maybe Mo didn’t like the interest level in O’Neill last winter. Maybe the thought is a center fielder is worth more, so abracadabra, poof, look everybody he’s a center fielder. That would explain why Carlson is presently being underutilized.

    #216591
    Euro Dandy
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    I would go Walker in LF, Carlson in CF, Noot in RF, with O’Neill on the trade block.

    Gorman stays at DH until Edman is eventually traded, which he probably will be next winter to make room for Winn.

    No doubt that’s a better defensive outfield. But for the second paragraph, how does trading Edman to make room for Winn impact Gorman at DH?

    On its own merit, I’d also be curious how Gorman would handle the OF like they are experimenting with Walker. It would be insane to experiment with that also this year, but I do wonder if he’d could make that move down the road. Maybe they have looked at it enough to know it’s a bad idea.

    #216593
    1toughdominican
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    I’d have to guess that if Jake gets slapped around tonight vs. PIT, it’ll be his last turn in the rotation for awhile, and if he aspires to a role as a SP’er, it’ll be a good test regarding survival instincts. I’d also say his primary challenge will be to keep the baseball from leaving the field of play.

    #216595
    Brian Walton
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    I wonder how many more turns until they think Waino is ready. If it is soon, they may just ride it out. They could easily piggyback the current starter to follow Waino as the latter builds back up.

    #216596
    Oliver
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    Well there might be some other open spots if Matz and Mikolas don’t improve. There is always the mystery injury to get them to figure things out.

    #216597
    1toughdominican
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    I don’t know, BW. I asked if anyone knew how far off Wainwright was in a comment yesterday. I guess that the correct answer is when he’s ready, he’s ready…Haha!

    #216598
    gscottar
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    No doubt that’s a better defensive outfield. But for the second paragraph, how does trading Edman to make room for Winn impact Gorman at DH?

    Not directly but I am assuming Winn might have some growing pains next year thus Donovan will probably get reps at SS which means Gorman will get more reps at 2B. What it boils down to is that eventually either Edman or Donovan is going to leave town and I think it will be Edman.

    #216601
    1toughdominican
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    It might be both of them if they don’t begin to get more than 4 or 5 innings of work in the area of SP’ing in more than a turn or two.

    #216602
    Euro Dandy
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    Not directly but I am assuming Winn might have some growing pains next year thus Donovan will probably get reps at SS which means Gorman will get more reps at 2B.

    I can certainly see that. It’s nice to have guys like Edman and Donovan who allow flexible lineups, and I find what Donovan has done in the field this year nothing short of outstanding, but I’d like them to stabilize positions more. I wonder if there is a significant correlation between “lineup stability” and “win-loss record.” It seems like there would be to me, but maybe it’s not the case.

    #216603
    Euro Dandy
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    It might be both of them if they don’t begin to get more than 4 or 5 innings of work in the area of SP’ing in more than a turn or two.

    And add to that guys like Donovan and Edman don’t fetch as much as power guys supposedly. I haven’t looked at trade simulators on this, but you might have to give guys like 2021 O’Neill or a Gorman who stays red hot all year to get the kind of pitching the Cards really need. I won’t deny that I give Mo the biz sometimes, but it’s not an easy game. Of course if it was easy, they wouldn’t make the big bucks.

    #216606
    1toughdominican
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    I’d say that for almost all teams the 3 slot is the only area that retains anything that could be termed stability only for the reason that it’s not too difficult to determine who your best hitter is. We saw a 10 year monopoly on that place in the order and I could never figure out how someone would have come up with the idea to hit Goldy in the 2 slot. But I’d also have to guess that there’d almost have to be a correlation between line-up stability and W/L record only because most people are smart enough to subscribe to the concept that proclaims if it’s spinning up smoothly, don’t touch anything that may disturb that nice balance.

    #216607
    bicyclemike
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    I wonder if there is a significant correlation between “lineup stability” and “win-loss record.” It seems like there would be to me, but maybe it’s not the case.

    I think this is probably true Euro, but the correlation is the other way around. In other words, the better teams likely have more lineup stability, but their success is they have better players, including strong pitching, rather than lineup stability generates better W-L records.

    Right now we are deservedly the worst team in the NL Central. Our run differentiation at -8 is the division’s worst. The Brewers at +25 is the best. That is a huge difference this early, and certainly cause for concern.

    We need to get better production out of the catcher spot, and most alarmingly better starting pitching. Within the teams in the division, we have scored runs about on par with the opponents, but have given up the most. Our usual tight defense is a little suspect as well.

    As for Junior, I thought I read somewhere that to start the season it was discussed whether he would play left or right, and he preferred right field.

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