Home › The Cardinal Nation Forums › Open Forum › 2023 StL Game #125: Sunday, August 20 vs. Mets
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blingboy.
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August 16, 2023 at 7:57 am #231688
1:15 p.m.
RHP Dakota Hudson (4-0, 4.03) vs. RHP Carlos Carrasco (3-6, 6.40)
BSM // KMOX // WIJR
(and Bally Sports South/Southwest Extra)August 19, 2023 at 9:53 pm #232010“Let’s get to .500 and see where we are with a couple of weeks to play”…Have no fear, September’s almost here!
August 19, 2023 at 11:25 pm #232019Entirely random and off topic, but the thought just occurred to me once again that it’s a shame that Big League baseball seemingly went out of it’s way to effectively eliminate what I thought was once was one of the primary things that made the game of baseball special. In my view, extra innings really no longer exist and you can be reasonably certain that the same rules that apply to games played during the regular season will be applied to the post-season in the not too distant future. I think they got it all wrong.
August 20, 2023 at 3:51 am #232021Agree.
August 20, 2023 at 7:44 am #232030We were at a small midwestern town county fair last night, and in checking the score of the Cardinals-Mets game, it was a much better way to spend an evening than watching the Marmol Mismanagement Mess.
I am with 1TD in that of all of our problems, the issue starts at the top and that this manager simply cannot lead in the way a big league club needs to be mentored. Too young, never played the game at the big league level, does not possess the demeanor nor charisma to overcome the lack of experience.
Our run differential is -49, so we truly “are what we are”. Earlier in the season our run differential was around even, but we were losing so many close games with seemingly bad luck playing a big part. But now we just stink. Take MOntgomery, Flaherty, Hicks and Helsley out of an already so-so pitching staff, and you become just plain bad.
Alright, driving home across Nebraska today. Will likely not even dial up the KMOX broadcast, which used to be a great way to spend a few hours driving. Sad time to be a Cardinal fan. When does college football start? Oh yeah, that is becoming a big mess as well.
August 20, 2023 at 8:01 am #232031
the issue starts at the top
I agree, but Marmol is not the top.
August 20, 2023 at 8:20 am #232033Take MOntgomery, Flaherty, Hicks and Helsley out of an already so-so pitching staff, and you become just plain bad.
On June 7, Helsley’s last appearance, we had been playing with the pitching staff in tact. On that date we were 63 games into the season in last place and 11 games under .500. Right now we are 124 games into the seaon in last place and 16 under .500. The pitching may be worse now, but the results have been just as bad or worse all along.
August 20, 2023 at 9:03 am #232037Driving home across Nebraska today.
Be on the ball for that 10 miles of 65 mph cross traffic road construction when you get about a half hour west of Kearney, BicycleMike. I went through there earlier this summer and some knucklehead who wasn’t paying attention obviously barrelled through the cones and caused a nasty accident.
Marmol will be fired before year’s end. And if he has aspirations to continue managing at this level, it’s going to take him quite a few years of minor league success before possibly getting another opportunity. But he has youth on his side and this mess certainly cannot be solely blamed on Ollie.
August 20, 2023 at 10:48 am #2320452B Tommy Edman S
LF A. Burleson L
1B P. Goldschmidt R
3B N. Arenado R
C W. Contreras R
RF J. Walker R
DH Luken Baker R
CF R. Palacios L
SS Masyn Winn RI guess Palacios is the new Mercado.
Lets see if Masyn can do something about that -21 OPS+. The Mets avoided throwing him fastballs in the zone yesterday. But that strategy depends on the pitcher having command of other stuff, as well as Masyn not chasing. We’ll see. I haven’t been able to watch games, so how is he looking in the field? Having Goldy stretching and digging at 1B will help.
August 20, 2023 at 11:14 am #232046I hope I’m wrong, Pugs, but my guess is that he’ll be here to start the ’24 season and his fortunes will hinge on the first 30 to 40 games. I’d like to see him gone over the off season which would allow more time and possibly a better selecton of possible replacements. If he’s indeed sacked in May or June of ’24 I’m not sure any top tier brand names would be available which is probably not the sort of change they’d want to make anyway.
August 20, 2023 at 11:32 am #232048Even if Mo is happy with Ollie, circumstances might force his had yet this season. Mostly for PR and to deflect blame. ‘See, I am doing something for the poor suffering fans.’ Put an interim manager in charge until the end. It would be some organization drone. So would be the eventual new manager.
August 20, 2023 at 11:44 am #232052It’s embarrassing to see a team tanking. I’ve never known what it feels like until now.
August 20, 2023 at 11:47 am #232054The Mozeliak Mismanagement Mess knows no ends but this fiasco is not because of one person. It has been a collaborative all the way from Bill Dewitt down to Taylor Motter’s barber and everyone in between.
August 20, 2023 at 12:16 pm #232059I wonder – has anybody ever thought about laying the blame on the players and their poor performances this year?
Seems like all we want to do is blame Mo and Oli…..
r/Esteemed Rat
August 20, 2023 at 12:18 pm #232060Wasn’t too happy last night to watch us not get Anything going. Combined with awful defense it was hard to watch. Not being able to play defense falls on poor coaching in my estimation. We played three 4A guys last night being kind. Looks like we have no LH batters left. Bull pen guys are players I haven’t seen before.So in my estimation we are in the middle of a re-evaluation or rebuild if you like that better. Pretty much starting over. Mets have us a high ERA and 0fer pitcher today. So lets call it a gift and see if we can win it. MLB commentators Coatas and Hernandez really smoozed up Ollie last night. Big media propaganda. Ollies just a mouthpiece for upper mgmt. We really do need a real skipper but it could painfully wait to next year. Bling you asked about Winn. Hes fast and great on defense. Can’t hit Major League breaking balls. Needs to be cooked another year in my guestimation.One of our 4A players. Hope to see some more prospects play esp pitching since we now resemble the movie “All Is Lost”! Chance to win today! Rays beat Angels last night 17-4! Go Cardinals!
August 20, 2023 at 12:49 pm #2320641982 willie
ParticipantNormally I would suggest the players are to blame. However a lot of people myself included acknowledged how this organization did nothing far as improving our pitching during the off-season. It was obvious that there was a lot of the same stuff as previous years where they hoped players particularly pitchers would over perform and stay healthy. None of that has happened. No one apparently thought waino would struggle which there was plenty of evidence he might. Marmol was never the right guy in my opinion. So the top has earned the blame here. It actually had been coming for some time in my opinion.
August 20, 2023 at 12:51 pm #232065I wonder – has anybody ever thought about laying the blame on the players and their poor performances this year?
Seems like all we want to do is blame Mo and Oli…..
r/Esteemed Rat
Yes I have mentioned this before. A lot of our players, especially the pitchers, have stunk all year. Our lineup has shown a little life but has been inconsistent. Also, the lineup completely stunk during the playoff series last year with the two big boys going 1 for 15.
August 20, 2023 at 1:43 pm #232072Not one clutch hitter out of the bunch. It’s been that way for awhile.
August 20, 2023 at 2:37 pm #232083Chris Rotondo (Peoria Outfielder) is 3-4 today with a walk, double, triple, home run, and 7 RBI. He likely won’t get another at bat to complete the cycle. Still a really good day worth mentioning.
August 20, 2023 at 2:43 pm #2320847 hits so far today-1 run?
August 20, 2023 at 2:56 pm #232085Not a bad day for the guy who some are ready to send to the nursing home.
August 20, 2023 at 3:00 pm #232086Haha!…”Taylor Motter’s barber”…Hush, gscottar…Don’t talk about Manny that way!
August 20, 2023 at 3:16 pm #232087
jj-cf-stlParticipantHe needed it, Aug ops of .654
Nice start Hudson
August 20, 2023 at 3:24 pm #232088Burly Goldy and Nado get it going in the 5th.
August 20, 2023 at 3:30 pm #232089Wooster thanks for the report on Winn.
Eventually he will get a base hit out of the infield. I assume he isn’t seeing fastballs in the zone again today.
On the radio Ricky commented on the 6th inning play where Winn and Edman converged on a hopper that eluded Hudson. It was a close play but safe at 1st. Ricky pointed out there was a moment of indecision between Edman and Winn that meant the difference between safe and out. He said that is a normal part of middle infielders getting used to playing together. I agree 100%, which is why it is stupid to have the undending churn in the lineup. Even when the personnel doesn’t change, guys are still not used to playing next to each other. Same with outfielders. If you have to remember which guy is there and how he is going to be playing it, its too late. The computer generated BS that gets fed to Ollie does not factor in the intangibles. But it matters.
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