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Before last year VerHagen was a ground ball pitcher in MLB, about 50%. If he can do that and throw strikes he will stick on the roster. He has to contain the walks, though.
Your analysis is spot on and provided clarity Brian. The one questionable assumption is that a healthy VerHagen makes the roster.
I think what Brian might be saying without saying it is that if VerHagen struggles an injury will be found to keep him on the roster in order to give him every chance to stick around and earn his $3M. Teams have to be coy about this but it always amazes me how a struggling player almost always seems to end up on the IL, especially if they are making more than the league minimum and are out of options.
What is Parson’s upside? Many(maybe most?) Pitchers selected in the rule 5 draft are players who are marginally ready for the majors bit have an upside that makes it Worth keeping them around even if only marginally effective inicial. I dont view Parson’s as having that upside.
Verhagen will rehab or be on the roster, but he appears to be a busted signing. His 3 million owed assures that happening.
Parsons likely would not be drafted in the rule 5. He has one plus attribute, control. And if if he is lost, it is not a huge deal. Like Brian said, Mcgreevy is highly possible to start for Memphis instead of Parsons.Agreed, Nigel, but another factor is that depth will be needed during the long season. What Pallante, Naile, Walsh and Pacheco all have are minor league options, which VerHagen does not. If there is a roster crunch at the end of spring training and all else is equal, the guys with options lose out to the ones that don’t. That doesn’t mean they won’t be back at the first opportunity.
Brian which 2 pitchers get sent down tô keep Ver Hagen on the ML roster?
I would argue that Ver Hagen’s contract effectively gives him options as well as no one Will claim him if he needs tô be sent down.
Argueing that Ver Hagen Will be on the ML roster based on performance is defensable even if I dont agree that he Will merit that. Argueing that they Will keep him on the ML roster due tô lacking options doesnt seem like a logical arguement tô me
Waino
Mikolos
Monty
Martz
FlahertyCabrera
ThompsonWoodford
Pallente
Stanton
Hicks
Gallegos
Hudson
HensleyWhat is Parson’s upside?
To be honest, I don’t know. But I do think he has at least as much upside as a Matt Bowman did when we chose him in Rule 5 some years back, and we got a couple years use out of him for basically nothing. Maybe the landscape has changed though.
Argueing that Ver Hagen Will be on the ML roster based on performance is defensable even if I dont agree that he Will merit that. Argueing that they Will keep him on the ML roster due tô lacking options doesnt seem like a logical arguement tô me
Except for the fact that the Cardinal front office doesn’t like to admit mistakes, which a DFA or a demotion to Memphis would in essence be. In the grand scheme of things eating $3M within a $180M payroll isn’t that big of a deal but I am sure they will give him every benefit of the doubt.
CC asked:
Brian which 2 pitchers get sent down tô keep Ver Hagen on the ML roster?
Today is December 2, not March 30. I cannot predict if any trades will occur between now and then, and most importantly, which players will open the season on the injured list. A few guys with options remaining may have bad spring camps and get sent down to start the year.
To the injury point, here is the number of StL pitchers to open the season on the IL in recent history:
2022 2
2021 3
2020 3
2019 3
2018 3
2017 5
2016 2Over the last seven years, the average has been exactly three.
So I do not recommend spending a lot of time now worrying about the exact makeup of the Opening Day roster. Far too many things can and will change between now and then. But my earlier points about VerHagen stand, either healthy and active, or on the IL (with a rehab ahead) on Opening Day. No DFA that soon.
bling said:
To be honest, I don’t know. But I do think he has at least as much upside as a Matt Bowman did when we chose him in Rule 5 some years back…
And I admit that I don’t know how many 27-year-old minor leaguers (Parsons’ age) are taken in the Rule 5, but I bet it isn’t many. Bowman was just 24 when he was snagged by the Cards in 2015. He was pretty much done by age 27.
Brian, Fair enough but in almost all those years we had guys coming off of surgery or extended DL time. This year of the true opening day roster candidates we only have Ver Hagen It would also include guys like Walsh who might open on the DL but was never in contention for an opening day roster spot. Also, if a starter Góes down in the Spring it could very well be Libertore that then enters the mix.
More importantly you said we should look at my original statement. You however forgot the part of the original statement that Said “the roster as currently constructed”. Not many people doing roster projections create an off season DL unless the player was injured at the end of the season.
And still not sure how Ver Hagen being out of options would influence any decision tô Henshin tô Memphis or not.
And still not sure how Ver Hagen being out of options would influence any decision tô Henshin tô Memphis or not.
In this particular case it is true that the lack of options probably isn’t an issue since Verhagen would accept Memphis if his only other choice is to forgo $3M but I still think it is a big assumption that VerHagen begins the year in the Memphis rotation. If he has a bad spring the Cardinals will most likely use the IL/rehab route as long as they can.
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