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I like to post my way too early minor league starting rotations:
Memphis Thomas
Hudson
Graceffo
Liberatore
Parsons/LeahySpringfield Mcgreevy
Leahy?
Gragg
Escobar
RodriguezPeoria Paniaugua
Baker
Hjerpe
Mautz
HencePalm Beach Hansen
Rajcic
Willis
Davila
Arias
Guerrero?Obviously there will be injuries, Spring Training performance, and some prospects may be traded as well. But most these rotations look pretty solid except for Springfield’s.
I did not include Bedell, which I think he will be rehabbing early, and may join Peoria or Springfield after that.
McGreevy made 20 starts at Double-A. I think he’ll compete to start for Memphis. If the Cards think he is ready, he won’t be blocked.
That Peoria rotation looks awesome. I would think Pete Hansen would be in the same boat as Mautz and Hjerpe though.
I don’t think they would give up on Austin Love or Zane Mills from the 2021 draft so soon either, so I could see the 2022 draftees start off in Palm Beach, rather than Peoria.
I don’t think Hudson pitches down.
I agree. I would think Hudson is either on the Stl roster or is traded.
Yes,, Mills should have been included in the Peoria mix. Love, IMO, would be a fast moving power reliever.
My only complaint about Hudson is that he seemed to be blaming a bad outing at times on something other than his pitching itself. That worries me a bit. I do love those ground balls, though. It’s kind of hard to imagine him pitching at Memphis. And you have to wonder what banning the shift will do to his game. I’ve been a a strong supporter of Hudson since he came up. I would feel frustrated by the walks and cheap base hits in the first inning or two. That, then, would be followed by ground ball after ground ball after ground ball.
I still think that as the roster is currently construçted that Ver Hagen starts the year in the Memphis rotation.
I think Parsons will be taken in the Rule 5 draft. So Leahy possible at Memphis or Springfield and CC could be correct with VerHagen starting in Memphis.
McGreevy has missed fewer bats at each level and his K rate is probably not what Mo seems to like. It seems likely it would tick down upon moving to AAA, so I don’t know about his future. He could somehow reverse course, though.
I agree Parsons will probably be lost to Rule 5. At mid season when Mo is looking for a reliable back end starter to take a turn every 5 days maybe Tom will be available.
Do those who think Parsons will be taken in the Rule 5 think he can hold an MLB job for the entire 2023 season? If so, why?
I mentioned this on another thread. VerHagen is out of minor league options.
That is what I was thinking. VerHagen will either be in St. Louis or DFA’d. He can’t be sent to Memphis and he has no trade value.
Ver Hagen is out of options but with less than 5 years service time can be sent tô Memphis by passing through waivers. Does anyone here think someone would claim him aandhis 3+ million dollar salary? Would the Cardinals be upset if they did?
People have this Idea that Just Because a player is out of options that he cant be sent down. Just not true. It requires passing through waivers but can be done with less than 5 years service time.
Am I wrong?
Ok, I checked. He hás tô be DFA’d and remover from the 40 msn roster. But does that mean he can declare himself a FA and still pick up his guaranteed salary?
Ok, my edita períod hás part. Further research leads me tô believe that I ser Wrong about Ver Hagen. But it is not the options that is the issue. It ia hás 3+ years of Major league service time that would allow him tô become a FA. Still researching if that means he still gets paid.
This is from a Birds on the Bat article in 2019. I dont believe this rule hás Changed. This applied tô players placed on outright assignment waivers. Clearing this type of waivers does not remove a player from the 40 man roster.
“. 3-year players, Super Two Players and players that have been outrighted previously in their careers can’t technically refuse the outright assignment. They must declare free agency, and in that case their contract gets terminated, with the club making the attempted outright no longer responsible for any remaining salary, and the player not being entitled to termination pay.”
Só in this case Ver Hagen would almost assuredly not declare himself a FA and lose his guaranteed salary. (Though the Cards would probably like it if he did). He would end up in Memphis as I suggested but would remain on the 40 man roster.
Your final analysis leads to the perfect conclusion, CC. That salary will allow us to shuffle him at will. I still see him as a viable MLB option depending on health.
Similar situation with Alan Craig though this indicates the outright waivers allowed them tô remove him from the 40 msn roster só I am unclear about that aspect
Kim Klement-USA TODAY Sports
“Red Sox’ outfielder Allen Craig has been outrighted to Triple-A after clearing waivers, according to a report from Tim Britton of the Providence Journal. Craig, who was recently optioned to Triple-A Pawtucket after struggling in the majors, is no longer on Boston’s 40-man roster and was passed over by every major-league team, likely due to the fact that he is owed more than $25 million through the 2017 season.-
Though his status as a major-leaguer with more than three years of service time allows him to decline the assignment, Craig would have to forfeit his remaining salary if he declined,
meaning that he will almost surely remain with the Red Sox at Triple-A. Craig signed a five-year, $31 million extension with the Cardinals in March of 2013 before being traded to Boston in last summer’s John Lackey trade.”
I also think Ver Hagen can contribute in 2023 but he may be rusty and he may need tô prove himself at Memphis first
I don’t think any team would claim him if he is DFA’d. If it is true that he would have to choose between going to Memphis or forfeiting the $3M then I agree he would choose Memphis.
Do those who think Parsons will be taken in the Rule 5 think he can hold an MLB job for the entire 2023 season? If so, why?
I think he has a decent chance to hang on an MLB roster as a back end/swing starter. The reason is his 2022 stats compare pretty well in certain key areas with the AAA stats put up by guys like Hudson, Libby and Pallante when they first came up. 2022: 135 IP, 1.172 WHIP and he averaged 16 pitches per inning. All good. He is efficient enough and does not allow too much traffic on the bases. Two full seasons in AAA and he’s not a regular on the IL.
On VerHagen, let’s step back and review the original point.
I still think that as the roster is currently construçted that Ver Hagen starts the year in the Memphis rotation.
VerHagen is coming off hip surgery.
If he throws well in camp, he will make the St. Louis roster.
If he throws poorly, he will likely go back on the IL and at some point after the season starts, sent on a rehab assignment. Perhaps that would be to Memphis, but it could be elsewhere. Likely it will move around to whichever affiliate is home that week.
If he performs well on rehab, he will be activated by St. Louis.
Only after he performs poorly over a considerable period of time would the team consider DFAing him. Given he is coming off surgery, it won’t happen for Opening Day. It just won’t, as this scenario explains.P.S. I agree that if DFAed, VerHagen would stick around. Again, that isn’t an Opening Day consideration, but something that might come up later.
Your analysis is spot on and provided clarity Brian. The one questionable assumption is that a healthy VerHagen makes the roster. There is a huge base of competition for right-handed relief when one considers the locks and then adds Pallante, Naile, Walsh, Pacheco, and two or three really Longshots. What if it comes down to a Drew vs Dakota showdown, and both are healthy and un-scored upon next spring. Neither is bumping Helsley, Gallegos, or Hicks.
My point is not to contest. but rather to accentuate that we are quite deep, and I bet we add multiple arms to the mix.
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