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I thought we were mercifully done with Ver Hagen a month ago, but I guess His ERA wasn’t high enough to lose confidence in him
Helsley has pitched back to back a couple times in the last couple weeks, once even with multiple innings one night. Had he pitched tonight, that would’ve been 4 times in 5 days. I get playing the long game with Helsley given his history, but yeah, it would’ve nice had he taken the 9th. Regardless, what I’m really scratching my head over is Marmol’s use of the pen in several other areas. Not good.
Said it last night and say it again, Gallegos control is way off. He needs shut down until after the break and work on mechanics with him to get him right for the 2nd half.
Other than Helsley and Packy who do you have confidence in? Cabrera is usually pretty good but didn’t have it tonight. Fernandez has been pretty good this year but didn’t have it tonight. Verhagen and Gallegos were predictable.
Well lots of positives to take away, shouldn’t let those get away. Far as bullpen. I’ve never been big on Fernandez. At times he looks good but that’s a lot of pitchers. I just think he’s too inconsistent. Verhagen, I never saw anything to get happy about. Gallegos is a good pitcher, I’m just not sure he’s a closer. I like him better earlier. If we aren’t going to really use helsley more often, then we need to get somebody else. We could try naughton there. I still like going out and actually making a deal to get a quality pitcher but is that going to happen.
I’m with Gscotar on trying Packy to close out games. Galeagos not so good this year. The house was on fire but it burned down tonight. Pen looked like a contest to give up 2 runs each.
Maybe better tomorrow.
Go Cardinals!I said two months ago that Gallegos is not a 9th inning guy. Looks like to me that he is overthrowing trying to be the closer. He was never as wild and particularly as wild high like he has been lately. As an 8th inning guy he had good command of the strike zone and kept the ball down. Fastball more 92-94 but he winging it at 95 trying to close.
Mo’s bullpen crew of castoffs has really hurt us this year. Rather see us go with some of our young arms.
I have more way more confidence in Fernandez than I do Oviedo. But here we are with VerHagen and McFarland just wasting spots in the pen still. Be nice to get a SP and be able to put Pallante back in a middle to late role possibly.
Well marmol said helsley said he needed the break so that’s fine. Still some bad managing, bad decisions by ownership or whoever makes decisions on current roster of pitchers. When you have better options in minors but choose to keep using guys who have struggled, someone’s at fault and it’s not the players. It’s on the people making decisions.
The only thing that would’ve made tonight’s meltdown more complete is if they had brought in McFarland to give up that last RBI hit. When it comes to managing bullpen personnel, a cast iron pan magically whacking Mo on his dome every time he makes one of his brilliant moves still wouldn’t clue him in.
The thing about moving the draft back, is we are keeping people like McFarland on the roster longer. It used to be, the Cardinals would get rid of them in June. Now, it’s July.
Well marmol said helsley said he needed the break so that’s fine. Still some bad managing, bad decisions by ownership or whoever makes decisions on current roster of pitchers. When you have better options in minors but choose to keep using guys who have struggled, someone’s at fault and it’s not the players. It’s on the people making decisions.No It’s actually NOT FINE what Oli did tonight!
He threw on the 9th and the 10th. Those were 14 and 10 pitch appearances. He had off the 11th and threw 13 pitches last night. Unless Oli is talking about when he pitched July 2nd when he threw 2 innings and 37 pitches and July 7th when he threw 2.1 innings vs. Atlanta then ok I guess….I guess you could say he needed rest. I mean it wasn’t like he had 4 days between those appearances to get that rest.
I mean was Oli saving him for the sweep tomorrow? Against the LA Dodgers! I mean anyone who was paying attention knew that when Waino couldn’t get past the 6th up 6-0. The Dodgers were going to come back considering the options we had available out of the pen tonight. Granted I had no Idea VerHagbum was coming off the DL. Either way you knew they would have to throw McFarland even if they didn’t have VerHagbum to throw gas on the fire. Even more of a reason to throw you closer and win the series when everyone else couldn’t get the Job done except Packy. You know because after what you just saw out of your pen tonight and Gallegos last night you’re lucky to have won that game and be winning this one.
Now it’s Helsley saying he needed a night apparently.
Did we really have this stuff going on a decade ago?
Someone said they noticed something when he pitched last night. Let’s see if there’s something there. My eyes are waiting for tomorrow and the weekend to see if there’s anything really there other than being worried about losing a late lead when you were announced an all-star a couple days ago.
Also can see Gio headed for an IL stint.
I think Helsey would have gone if he felt good. I’d rather have a pitcher be honest and nurse it a couple days rather than blow it out. For all we know that is what Reyes did last year. But where we killed ourself was the momentum from VerHagen. Now I haven’t said this all season but I’m going to go there: I’d have trusted Woodford to eat those 3 innings and been confident that we’d have gone home with the win. And Marmol knew a McFarlin implosion would have been imminent. They are really hurting the pen. Please, please DFA them and bring up Woodford and Naile. I have seen some lousy hit machines in my day. I remember Juan Agusto having a year where he got lit up. I remember the time Pedro Borbon got shellacked until he was granted release. I knew Gary Buckels had to be lousy with a name like that (even if he wasn’t really that bad). Then there was that lefty we included in the Rasmus deal that wore out his welcome. But short of Holland, noone gives me that doom feeling like VerHagen.
Something tells me, Gallegos goes IL and Nailes comes back. Also Thompson gas to come back. Not to mention Woodford.
Well, this thread was a terrible thing to wake up to on Bastille Day. Very depressing. Poor Waino takes it in the posterior again. I think I’ll just go watch the parade on TV and dream dreams of brilliant pitching acquisitions,
Cards have one of the worst and cheapest front offices around…..constantly making stupid moves by sending younger better pitching options to the minors to keep garbage like McFarland, and Ver Hagen on the roster…..
And doesn’t help they hired nothing more than a clueless “yes clown” manager to run this team. Oli has no clue what the heck he is doing and that is a fact….his garbage bullpen management is a joke and he cost the cardinals games over and over all year…..
Gonsolin has to feel like he’s the luckiest man on the planet right now, having been born a Dodger. Even with how his team came storming back from an 8 run deficit last week vs the Cubs, when he left last night’s game, he had to have been thinking that he was saddled with his first loss of the year. With the way Gonsolin is pitching, coupled with the dynamite Dodger lineup, we could now see this pitcher being the first to hit the 20 win mark without having a loss. As much as I don’t like the Dodgers, it would be a pretty cool thing to see.
Blowing a six-run lead doesn’t happen often…
Last night, the Cardinals led the Dodgers, 6-0, entering the 7th inning.
The Dodgers won, 7-6.
Entering the day, St. Louis had won 278 straight games when leading by 6 runs in the 7th inning or later. pic.twitter.com/5CtrPKXgVH
— ESPN Stats & Info (@ESPNStatsInfo) July 14, 2022
Regarding Gallegos, this is why I’d have been fine with dealing him in the off-season. 30+ year old, late blooming relievers, especially those without dominating stuff, have a short shelf life.
On Tuesday’s game thread after the win
“we will have to see if the effort to hide the so called starter and limp him through a few innings will end up costing us. “
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