Home › The Cardinal Nation Forums › Open Forum › 2022 Cardinals MLB Game 84 thread – Wednesday, July 6 at Braves
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July 6, 2022 at 9:28 pm #190340
We have a very average bullpen, a very average rotation, and too many position players on the IL. Goldy can only carry this team so far.
July 6, 2022 at 9:29 pm #190341St. Louis currently has 11 players on the IL. And their starting shortstop to open the season fizzled out and was sent down.
Brian, I know you defend the organization more times than not and try not to be the “negative Nancy” fans tend to be, especially when things turn the way they have the last few weeks. But every team has injuries. Philly is still winning with a top 5 hitter, reigning MVP, out and when he was playing it was with a busted elbow. And you can’t say some of the “injuries” weren’t welcomed with McFarland and VerHagen. And saying the starting SS “fizzled out”, come on. He’s been fizzled out for a few years and he didn’t deserve to be the starting SS to start the year to begin with.
I agree this team is better than many fans are giving credit, but fans don’t want to lose. They look at the team and stats that say they are good, but trailing to Milwaukee, been below .500 the last 5 weeks, losing to Philadelphia, 3 straight to Atlanta who are 2nd and 3rd in their division with a better record than the Cardinals and clearly look like better teams right now.
The offensive stats look good, but at no point have they been close to clicking together. The SP has been been iffy to start and Mikolas, who many fans had given up on before the season, is really the only reliable guy right now but he’s still a #3, maybe #2, on all the other playoff contention teams. The pen has started to come together, but most of the season has been a disaster outside the back 3. Fans want to see winning, and a lot of this patchwork pitching, excuses for not being better, has grown old and nobody cares what Pujols did 10+ years ago, he’s a liability now and taking a roster spot I’m sure could be utilized better (yes, I know he got 2 hits tonight).July 6, 2022 at 10:29 pm #190345bccranParticipantKnizner – .183
Delong – .130
Dickerson – .194
Pujols – .189
Sosa – .196
Nootbaar – .151
Herrera – .111
Molina – .213Matz – 6.03
Flaherty – 5.63
Wittgren – 5.90
McFarland – 7.43
VerHagen – 6.30
Whitley – 5.68
Liberatore – 5.66
Brooks – 7.71
Hudson – 4.29Never seen anything quite like this on a Cardinal team.
July 7, 2022 at 3:40 am #190348Hey guys, don’t despair. It’s early yet!
July 7, 2022 at 5:27 am #190349This season, St. Louis hitters are batting .261 with RISP, eighth best of 30 MLB teams.
So maybe we are great at piling on when it doesn’t matter. I wonder what we are batting with RISP when we are behind?
July 7, 2022 at 6:15 am #190350LeeParticipantgood post bccran. and to top it off they keep Woodford off the roster with a 3.05 era.
Management is doing such a good job. (Not!)
His slider isn’t good enough or his barrel % is too high, or yadayadayada… I guess the days when ERA mattered are gone with this team. They really are shooting themselves in the foot by acting as if the new mathematical metrics are the lone indicator on players.
If a player doesn’t have great metrics but still gets the job done, what’s the difference?July 7, 2022 at 6:19 am #190351C667, thanks for the detailed explanation. I agree that every team has injuries and per the data I posted on the Pitching Injuries thread, the Cardinals have been hit less hard than most teams here in 2022.
My reply you quoted was in response to a poster asking why the Cards have so many players playing out of position. As I see it, injuries are a significant reason for that. As that same poster said the other day, half the regular lineup was unavailable. For example, with everyone healthy, Yepez would not be in the outfield.
I was not defending the team’s record by blaming injury, but instead trying to help answer the question as to why the out of position players were in the lineup. (As the data bccran posted indicates, a lot of Cardinals are underachieving offensively, but hitting wasn’t the point to which I was responding.)
(To your initial, general point, I often end up trying to explain the other side of an issue, because much of the time, folks are upset about this or that and seemingly haven’t always considered all angles (and maybe don’t want to). I try not to lead with just another opinion, but back it up with data whenever possible.)
July 7, 2022 at 6:42 am #190352bb asked:
So maybe we are great at piling on when it doesn’t matter. I wonder what we are batting with RISP when we are behind?
Good question. I don’t see that specific split, but if I get some time later, I will look further. (Of course, anyone is welcome to do so…)
Having said that, we’ve gotten away from the earlier point, which was the contention that Arenado is a poor hitter in clutch situations. So far, I’ve seen no data to support that other than the eye test, which is highly subjective.
July 7, 2022 at 7:56 am #190362bccranParticipantSure injuries have played a part in healthy players playing out of position. But that doesn’t alter the fact that your defense is weakened by those players playing out of their normal position. One look at Yepez playing left field attests to that. Or is that an opinion not supported by facts.
July 7, 2022 at 8:06 am #190365Do you believe that the Cardinals “weakened” defense is costing them wins? Of all the problems this team has, out of position defenders would be low on my personal list. Your priorities must be different.
In my view, the defense isn’t letting the pitching down. The pitching is underachieving and that is what is hurting the team most. Others may see it differently.
July 7, 2022 at 8:27 am #190367Well, outside of adding Woodford I don’t think the Cards have anyone left on the farm to call up that would really make an impact this year.
That leaves only a trade or two but is this team performing well enough to give up prospects to bring in an impact player?
I dont think you mortgage the farm simply make the playoffs. Work with what you have, let the young guys get experience and know that you will have two spots to fill (Puhols and Molina) for sure and maybe a third (Wainwright). If you get in fine; if you don’t at least you didn’t trade away a young prospect so you could sneak into the playoffs and lose the WC game again….
The best starting pitcher on the staff is a #2 at best, maybe even a #3. I do think outside of Catcher there are probably enough position players who are ‘good enough’ to make it work.
Its like many of us were saying last year – who will the starting pitchers going to be? Counting on ALL of Flaherty, Mikolas. Hudson, and Wainwright to be healthy AND effective was risky business – and we can see how that strategy has worked out….
July 7, 2022 at 8:30 am #190368Historically data shows that there is no such thing as a “clutch” hitter. Over a career a guy trends towards his stats in all situations.
The other problem with a “clutch” hitting metric is that you really don’t know what might be a “clutch”’hit. Was Ozuna’s homer yesterday “clutch”? I mean that was all Atlanta really needed to win the game.
Is a two run single in the third as “clutch” as a two run single in the eighth of a 4-3 win? They both count the same, and each is needed to win a game like that.
July 7, 2022 at 8:51 am #190369The definition of clutch is very subjective.
Mine would be these situations in the 7th inning or later with no more than a 5 run spread:
Any 2 out hit
Any hit with men on base.
Any double, triple, or homerunI leave out 0 and 1 out bases empty singles because nothing is shaking at that point…again, purely subjective on my part.
July 7, 2022 at 8:58 am #190371I agree with ZTR, to add on a little bit….. If somehow you could add in “a hard/mildly hard hit” ball that would help even more, but very difficult to do.
Example, a grounded single that miraculously finds a whole or a bloop double that falls between the 2nd baseman and RF should be weighted different than a line drive double into a gap or down the line.July 7, 2022 at 9:00 am #190373They all look like line drives in the box score, lol.
July 7, 2022 at 10:06 am #190388bccranParticipantPeople are happy with Donovan because he’s a contact hitter who sprays base hits to all fields. Fairly high average and high OBP. A real gamer. There’s another guy right now at Memphis who fits the same profile. With more power.
July 7, 2022 at 12:29 pm #190401It’s too bad that other player doesn’t play 2B, SS, 3B, CF or C.
July 7, 2022 at 5:50 pm #190417A batters impact on each game, is easily measured in a context dependent manner, but it has one of those silly XYZ names that fans here don’t care much for, so I’ll pass on posting Arenado’s “clutchness” or “non-clutcness”.
July 7, 2022 at 6:22 pm #190419One reason I still like the RBI stat is that it is an indication of “clutch”. If you are delivering runs, you are contributing to success and enhancing the chances of a win. I don’t care if you get ‘em in the first inning or ninth, just get ‘em home.
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