2020 Cardinals Game #5 – Wed 7/29 at Twins

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  • #134153
    Avatar1982 willie
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    well i was planning on boycotting this year just due to its nature and the cardinals owners stupidity but from reading a couple of articles on the news feeds i can see the bader hatred has continued so i plan on watching just so i can see him play play til he inevitably is traded. hopefully he will be traded to a team that actually has some coaches that can actually help someone improve their hitting.

    #134166
    Avatarbccran
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    Not a matter of being a Bader hater. It’s just with this particular lineup we probably can’t afford a good field no hit player in CF.

    #134193
    jj-cf-stljj-cf-stl
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    “It’s just with this particular lineup we probably can’t afford a good field no hit player in CF” … when we’re already paying 50mil in 2019 for Molina, Carpenter and Fowler to post 4.0 BRwar total. Fowler led that bunch with a below league avg 1.5 war, Molina 1.3, Carp 1.2

    “Not a matter of being a Bader hater” … it just ruffles fewer feathers on a message board to constantly call out the unproven league minimum guys, when those established expensive fan favorites don’t live up to their contracts. We got 2.1 war out of Bader for half-a-mil! It must be O’Neill, Thomas & Baders contracts that has the team salary handcuffed 🙂

    #134197
    Avatar1982 willie
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    It is being a bader hater. I guess we can afford edmon, carpenter, fowler, molina, oneil, wong, and dejong. I looked at the stats. None of those are doing hardly any better than bader. the only one who is doing anything is goldsmidt at the moment. Now personally i see it as early season and it takes time to shake things out but since everyone wants to quickly jump on bader, im quickly throwing everyone else in there as well.

    #134199
    bicyclemikebicyclemike
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    Maybe it is semantics, but I do not see the talk about Bader as “hate”, but rather critical analysis. “Hate” seems too polarizing, like you have to love the guy or hate him. Reality is things are usually in shades of gray.

    Harry was a good prospect who declined last year, putting him under some scrutiny. His slow start this year has not helped.

    #134203
    Avatarbccran
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    How about this, jj and willie. Bader needs to eat some humble pie and realize that a slash line of .205/.314/.366/.680 is not just weak, it’s awful. You don’t state during the off season “I’m the starting center fielder for the St. Louis Cardinals”. You say that you’re competing, will work hard to improve, and hope to remain in the starting lineup. Even some of the best players in the majors say that type of thing every off season. Quite frankly, the cutsy little bat flip and cockiness, along with the poor production at the plate have turned a number of people off.

    #134205
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    What does personality have to do with anything baseball-relevant? I have seen no one suggest Bader hasn’t put in the work to try to improve. The problem as I see it is lack of results. All the rest is noise.

    #134215
    Avatarbccran
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    Attitude has played into the player equation in sports for as long as I remember. It’s reality, not “noise”. It’s why scouts interview parents, coaches, teachers, and administrators before drafting a player and making a significant investment in him.

    #134217
    Avatarbccran
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    When we talk about personality, BW. How about the case of Tino Martinez? He reportedly wasn’t the most pleasant guy to be around. Joe Strauss at the time said that Martinez was the only Cardinal who had ever yelled at him. All of that factored into getting rid of him.

    #134218
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Have you heard of any clubhouse issues with Bader? Is he a problem teammate? Has he been resistant to coaching? Any of that would be news to me.

    That you don’t like his brashness is your opinion and you are entitled to it. But I say it is noise because it has nothing to do with him not hitting, and that is what matters right now.

    #134219
    UConn CardUConn Card
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    “It ain’t bragging if you can back it up” – The immortal Dizzy Dean

    Diz backed it up. Bader hasn’t (at least yet)

    #134220
    Avatarbccran
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    If a player is cocky and over confident, it can affect his ability to absorb instruction and implement changes leading to improved productivity. Jason Marquis had this issue and was dealt. Colby had the issue and was dealt. Bader’s bat flip and cocky off season statement lead me to surmise an issue. Just my opinion. Nothing more.

    #134221
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Bader is approaching 1000 plate appearances as a major leaguer. If it doesn’t happen soon, will it ever?

    #134222
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Bader spent the entire offseason away from home in Florida working with Jeff Albert (and a private hitting coach). That is fact, not supposition like you are making. If the guy doesn’t make it, it won’t be because he wasn’t trying to be the best he can be.

    #134223
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Read this entire article from Winter Warm-Up. Yes, Bader states he planned to be the center fielder. He also readily acknowledged his struggles last season and explained what he was doing to try to improve. Yet, the focus here is only on the part perceived as negative.

    https://www.kmov.com/news/acknowledging-last-years-struggles-harrison-bader-stakes-his-claim-to-cardinals-center-field-job/article_41966ce8-3a25-11ea-b930-ab0c7a99472e.html

    #134243
    Avatarbccran
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    It’s like changing your golf swing. It takes a lot of patience and time, and you normally get worse before getting better.
    So far, small sample, it doesn’t look like
    the hard work over the off season has paid off for Bader. It may take more time. And the Cards simply don’t have the time to wait in such a shortened season.

    #134244
    Avatar1982 willie
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    my problem with the bader thing is people focus on bader or fowler when there are plenty of others doing just as bad as i pointed out. All you have to do is look at the stats. I dont have a problem with them giving thomas a few more at bats, let him play for bader and fowler some. But just because you have a shortened season doesnt mean you throw realities out the window. Five games is not enough time to totally evaluate after he made an effort to work on things. Maybe he will end up getting traded and maybe will be out of the league in a couple of years, i just wonder who you all are gonna kick around after he is gone.

    #134274
    jj-cf-stljj-cf-stl
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    RE: reply 134203, addressed to jj and willie….

    Thanks for that reply bc, I better understand the base of your opinions. I don’t endorse it, I’m actually the opposite of your fan experience, which helps me understand why you and I view topics here differently.

    I / We, the wifey and I don’t attend Fan Days in the pre-season. We don’t ask for autographs, wear jerseys with other peoples last name on them, or listen to post and pre game telecasts and interviews. This will probably seem odd too, but we don’t listen to announcers during the game either. We watch the players play the game on mute and listen to our music and talk. Our emotional investment in the players personalities or personal lives is pretty much non-existent.

    I can still tell you the starting STL position players from 1964 when I was a fan boy, and emotionally invested, but those days are long gone. I blame it on free agency 🙂 The players come and go quickly these days.

    #134278
    Avatarbccran
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    I’ve been following the Cardinals since the 50s, jj. There are 3 basic groups
    of Cardinals that I enjoy the most.

    1.) Guys who have been part of the core, and been here for many years. Guys like Yadi, Carp, Waino, etc. Future members of the Cardinals Hall of Fame.

    2.) The talented guys who I track coming all the way through the system.
    Especially get a big kick when they break into the majors and their families fly in to see their first game. Guys like Flaherty, Hudson, Helsley, Edman, Hicks, Dejong, etc.

    3.) Guys who have been blocked or haven’t been given a chance at the major league level coming from other organizations. Guys like Jose Martinez, Gallegos, Ravelo, and Dean.

    #134413
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    #134443
    Avatar14NyquisT
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    “This is so 2020″…. the new catchphrase for “I can believe anything else that goes south”. Brian, is that your own?

    2020… everyone’s nightmare.

    #134445
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

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    No, I cannot take credit for it, but it did seem to fit.

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