StL 2024 Game #121 thread – Wednesday, August 14 at Reds

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  • #263714
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    5:40 p.m.
    RHP Kyle Gibson (7-4, 3.99) vs. RHP Carson Spiers (4-4, 4.45)
    BSM // KMOX
    Also BS Southeast and Southwest Extra

    #264162
    ZTR
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Hard to get excited about Cardinal baseball these days.

    #264170
    Cardinal in France
    Participant

    Free

    This is like watching one of those old movies where the guy gets stuck in quicksand and we watch him slowly sink until with a final “gloop,” the surface (read that metaphorically .500) closes over his head.

    #264184
    bicyclemike
    Moderator

    Paid - Annual

    I think we will actually win this one on the order of around a 4-3 score. Maybe even 4-2! 🙂

    #264188
    ZTR
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    So, the truth is that as bad as it’s been a good 7-3 run would have the Cardinals back to 5 games over .500 and likely sitting in the 3rd WC spot – for whatever that would actually mean.

    Personally, I think the best chance to finally break the cycle after a decade of overpriced mediocrity would be for the team to collapse resulting in a real rebuild handled by a primarily new front office.

    The risk is that the new guys don’t get it right…at that point we might be fondly remembering the days of being a .500 team.

    I have come to the conclusion that as long as BDW and family own the team that the ceiling is winning 93 games (division title?) and then getting hot in the playoffs and making the NLCS. I guess this might happen once a decade…

    #264192
    blingboy
    Participant

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    I hope they don’t just scrap and rebuild the ML roster like the buy a team orgs do. Then it doesn’t work and you try again, accumulating dead contract obligations as you go. BDW is not going to fund that and I wouldn’t want a new ownership group that falls into that pattern. It is the entire organization that needs to be rebuilt, starting with scrapping the ‘philosophy’. Find people who understand the human aspect, the intangibles, and the importance of what you can’t measure with radar and lasers, that appreciate the value of lessons learned over 100 years and not thinking you have a better way because of all the crap on the wall behind your desk. I am convinced the org disregards anything that can’t be objectively measured and digitized. If it doesn’t make for clean input, it doesn’t exist. Obviously. what the org is doing doesn’t work at any level.

    #264212
    gscottar
    Participant

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    Scanning the schedule for the next 30 days does not look good. I think it is going to be brutal for the Cardinals with series after series against winning teams. Meanwhile, the Cubs appear to have a cream puff upcoming schedule. 30 days from now I fully expect the Cubs to be comfortably ahead of the Cardinals. They will be fighting for the final wild card spot and we will be dreaming about 2025.

    #264214
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    bling said:

    Find people who understand the human aspect, the intangibles, and the importance of what you can’t measure with radar and lasers, that appreciate the value of lessons learned over 100 years and not thinking you have a better way because of all the crap on the wall behind your desk.

    That sounds as All-American as hot dogs, apple pie and single-admission double-headers. Who could argue?

    But getting real, who are these people? Where do they work now? What are their accomplishments that qualify them? And most importantly, what are their names?

    Do they actually exist? How will we know these people when we see them? Or are we chasing extinct beings?

    And even if they could be hired and turned loose to work their magic, how would we know they are successful for years down the road?

    #264217
    jj-cf-stl
    Participant

    Bling, we’re copycatting mlb. We do what they do, just not as well.

    #264219
    blingboy
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    If they do what needs doing, it will take years. I probably should repeat that I am not opposed to modern analytics. I am opposed to its misuse. I think it is a tool. And like a hammer, it can drive nails or mash thumbs depending upon the skill of the user. The Cardinals under Mo mash thumbs.

    I have heard that Bochy respects analytics. If he was on the Cardinals top step when Walker arrived, he would play him every day no matter what Mo and his wonky whizbags said about it. He would then be fired for philosophical differences and an organization minion would be put in charge.

    #264234
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Maybe they already had him in Mike Shildt…

    #264250
    KeepComingBack
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Maybe they already had him in Mike Shildt…

    Schildts firing proved Mo is omnipotent. Even when the bad decisions pile up, Mo is allowed to carry on. And the owner threatens the fanbase with less spending if attendence decreases because of the inferior product and losing? Wouldn’t it make more sense to remove the person whose solely responsibility is the quality of the product? This just keeps getting weirder.

    #264252
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Is Jordan already in the doghouse?

    #264253
    RBK
    Participant

    We’ll probably never know the full story of what really happened with Mo and Shildt, but I strongly suspect this team would be in about the same place with Shildt (or pretty much any other mgr) in the seat. The roster just isn’t very good.

    #264255
    RBK
    Participant

    Is Jordan already in the doghouse?

    Apparently, he’s been called up to be a platoon OF vs LHP. The same guy the FO thought it was urgently important to send down to AAA get a lot of PAs to “work on things” for his long term development. They just can’t get out of their own way.

    #264257
    stlcard25
    Participant

    Apparently, he’s been called up to be a platoon OF vs LHP.

    Did someone actually say that?? Hasn’t Walker had reverse splits for most of his minors and major league career?

    #264260
    jj-cf-stl
    Participant

    Yes

    #264261
    Albert de Morcerf
    Participant

    Free

    Yes, Walker hits righties BETTER than lefties.

    So of course, Oli won’t play him against righties! Why…let’s just run out the same failed lineup we used yesterday!

    #264262
    RBK
    Participant

    Did someone actually say that?? Hasn’t Walker had reverse splits for most of his minors and major league career?

    Per Katie Woo in The Athletic:

    “The Cardinals plan to platoon Walker. He’ll start in right field against left-handed starters and come off the bench in games started by righties. That decision might come as a surprise, as St. Louis has been adamant about prioritizing Walker’s development. But with six weeks remaining in the regular season, maximizing lineup production takes priority over player development, leading the Cardinals to temporarily deviate from the course.

    With the platoon, the Cardinals hope Walker can help boost the offense against left-handed pitching. St. Louis has the second-worst production against left-handed pitchers in baseball. It is something the Cardinals have struggled with since April. Deploying a roster with seven left-handed hitters didn’t help matters either.”

    #264265
    jj-cf-stl
    Participant

    Pagans splits suggest a loaded lefty lineup by us. For me, Oli is choosing Pham over Gorman, in spite of the splits. I like it.

    #264266
    blingboy
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Hoping Walker will help the offense vs lefties does not address why he will not also be playing vs righties.

    #264267
    jj-cf-stl
    Participant

    Pagan will act as a opener, and Oli chose the best 9 bats he has w/the best staggered lineup he can. Walker sits because he can’t crack the lineup.

    #264268
    LACardFan
    Participant

    Free

    30 days from now I fully expect the Cubs to be comfortably ahead of the Cardinals. They will be fighting for the final wild card spot and we will be dreaming about 2025.

    Wait until next year!!!

    #264269
    LACardFan
    Participant

    Free

    but I strongly suspect this team would be in about the same place with Shildt (or pretty much any other mgr) in the seat.

    Shildt was good at stressing the fundamentals and much better at managing the clubhouse than either Martheny or Marmol.

    Based on those two factors, I would think the Cardinals would have a few more wins than they do.

    #264270
    LACardFan
    Participant

    Free

    As for the Jordan Walker situation, the Cardinals analytics staff automatically thinks right-handed hitters can hit left-handed pitchers and left-handed hitters cannot. They don’t bother actually looking at splits, they look at handedness.

    In this sense, Bling is right, the Cardinals misuse their “analytics”.

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