What’s Becoming of This Game?

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  • #150824
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    It’s just amazing that bc rags on a guy who gives it his all (unlike Yadi, Fowler, etc), is technically sound and has some fun out there. We could do a lot worse than having Bader patrolling CF for 3 more years. Heck, if the 113 wRC+ Bader is the real Bader, Mo may offer him an extension!!

    #150826
    Avatarbccran
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    You know something, 25 and jj? Everyone’s entitled to their opinion. I don’t berate you for liking Bader. That’s your business and you certainly have that right. I respect your opinion. I’ve also stated that I agree that Bader has some talent. And said that I hope Bader fulfils his total potential, because it sure would help. You don’t like a post? Fine, disagree with it. But the day we can’t express our opinions on here (with honesty and full transparency) will be a sad, sad day.

    #150827
    Avatargscottar
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    I have never had a problem with Bader. He strikes out a lot but so do a lot of other Cardinals. O’Neill and DeJong are whiff machines but don’t seem to receive the same level of scrutiny.

    I am a bit different from some fans in that I place a very high value on defense so I like Bader’s game and think he should start everyday. I also liked Wong’s game and still think the Cardinals are going to regret that decision.

    #150829
    jj-cf-stljj-cf-stl
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    bccran, the difference is we say it once and let it go. You on the other hand ram it down the communities throat non-stop about Bader. Huge difference. No-one is trying to limit your opinion on any topic, but your need to create multiple threads, and even hi-jack threads with your Bader opinion is a broken record getting played over and over, and that’s truly sad. Just for a moment, consider the above. We didn’t even make it to page 2, and here we are, again.

    #150832
    Avatarforsch31
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    bc, there are quite a few posters who have made comments to you about your dislike of Bader and his habits. On this thread, no one brought him up until you made the snide comments about him on 2 different posts. I know this is at least 4 different threads that have been going on since the off-season began that you have made comments about Bader’s habits at the plate and/or his hat falling off. Maybe the problem is that posters are tired of hearing about it. We know your position on it.

    You are correct that you have the right to post about it. We also have the right to strongly disagree with you about it. If you don’t want anyone posting about your comments, don’t post them anymore. Once again, we know how you feel about Bader. If you never said it again, we would still know you dislike the way he approaches his at bats and that you think he is arrogant.

    #150835
    Avatarbccran
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    Absolutely ridiculous, jj. I have a sincere worry about the game becoming boring due to too many strike outs, too many walks, and too much emphasis on the home run. I felt it was worthy of a thread because the game is changing so much. As I said, lack of hits and run, lack of sacrifice bunts, lack of stealing, lack of exciting squeeze plays, etc. Please don’t be insulting with your generalistic
    accusations.

    Plus, I have never started a thread about Bader and rarely make a comment about him on any thread unless his name is brought up by another poster. Then I do join in with my boring, repetitive comments. My bad.

    #150837
    jj-cf-stljj-cf-stl
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    bccran, with your stated denial, I’ll expect more of the same from you. I endorse your right to Bader hate, as well as my enjoyment making fun of your Bader obsession. Maybe the community will luck out and we both get canned. Wouldn’t be life altering for me 🙂

    QUACK!

    #150845
    Avatarforsch31
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    bc, I also think there are way too many strikeouts and too much emphasis on home runs. If you think that sacrifice bunts are exciting, there are many fans that would disagree. I like stolen bases and hit and runs. The increase in walks has more to do with pitchers than it does hitters. I like the hitters who value a .300 batting average.

    To the younger fans, they seem to like home runs and a quick sprint rather than a marathon. Unfortunately, I don’t see much changing anytime soon.

    #150848
    Avatarbccran
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    It’s also the emphasis on OBP, Forsch. Near the top of the Billy Beane’s list. Part of what goes into the all important OPS that gets you a significant contract. Home runs for slugging percentage and walks to help OPS. The art of small ball is lost. It was much more fun watching the Ozzie, Lou, Willy crowd.

    #150850
    Avatarforsch31
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    I agree that a higher OBP is good. The better players have a higher OBP. I am less impressed with a higher SLG. The only way I am impressed with the higher SLG is if the batting average and OBP is also high. I don’t like the sacrifice of contact for power.

    #150856
    Avatarbccran
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    I like a good OBP if it includes a lot of hits. But watching a guy at the plate walk time after time isn’t the most exciting thing. Unless he steals second and third. Now that’s exciting.

    #150857
    Avatarforsch31
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    If their OBP is high but they are striking out around 10-13%, I don’t mind a lot of walks. That just means that they are waiting for their pitch. Those players are putting the ball in play almost all the time and getting good results.

    #150858
    Avatarbccran
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    I guess I come from an era where the targets for a good player were a batting average of .300 and 100 RBI.

    #150862
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    Incidentally, my understanding of Jeff Albert’s philosophy would prioritize putting the ball in play over swinging for power all the time. Which you saw by the Cards OBP being solid this year, while the slugging was not very good. Sounds like this next year should be a lot of fun for you all, since I’d imagine they’ll be back to stealing more bases with Edman, Bader, Carlson, Thomas and maybe even O’Neill having the ability.

    #150864
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    The first 3/4 of the season, Cards were 6th best in walk rate and 7th best in K rate, 13th in wRC+. The last two weeks, they were 19th in walk rate and 26th in K rate, 28th in wRC+. There’s some hope for next year that they’re more the former than the latter.

    #150867
    Avatarforsch31
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    I will never use RBIs as a measure of a hitter again. IMO, it too dependent on the rest of the team. The only way a hitter can get an RBI without someone on base is a home run. Therefore, RBIs are more dependent on his hitting with RISP.

    In 1985, Tom Herr had 110 RBI with only 8 HRs. That makes it look like he was a great hitter. However, taking his best 3 year period as a hitter, he only averaged 63 RBI. If you took that 3 year period and made it a 162 game average that would be an average of 79 RBI. In only 3 years was he an above league average hitter per OPS+.

    #150869
    Avatarbccran
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    I remember when there was great celebration for Albert setting a record for hitting .300+, having at least 30 HRs, and driving in at least 100 runs his first 10 years in the majors. First to ever do that. I guess BA and RBI was very meaningful to at least a number of people.

    #150871
    Avatarforsch31
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    Well, over that 10 year period, in Pujols’ best year he drove in 93 runners other than himself. In Tom Herr’s best season, he drove in 102 runners other than himself. To me, that says something about RBIs. Pujols was clearly the better hitter.

    BTW, the last line in your reply #150869 is the reason I question why I talk about baseball with you. It makes me believe you are trying to dumb*** whoever you are replying to. And you do that to a lot of posters.

    #150872
    Avatarbccran
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    You know, Forsch, it’s simply a statement that there are a number of people who still care about batting average and runs batted in. It’s not meant to put anyone down if they don’t care about those stats. Some care about those stats and some don’t. Don’t read things into posts that aren’t there.

    #150876
    Avatar14NyquisT
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    The new .300 BA is now .275.

    Until a couple of teams start having success with playing small ball again we’ll have more of the same swing for the fences and get on the highlight reel way of playing this game. JMO

    #150886
    Avatarbccran
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    One of the most exciting plays in baseball used to be the squeeze bunt. Especially when the game was on the line. Now it’s almost extinct do to anal-ytics.

    How many times, with 2 strikes, do you see a player shorten up on the bat and just try to make contact – on anything close to the strike zone?

    Lastly, I guess the analytic wonks say “why have to put together 3 singles to score a run when you can do it with one swing of the bat”.

    #150893
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    Lastly, I guess the analytic wonks say “why have to put together 3 singles to score a run when you can do it with one swing of the bat”.

    That’s exactly why the game is played that way. Pitching is too dominant. The best players of yesteryear would struggle to hit .300 just like today’s do, if they could be transported to the game today.

    #150896
    Avatarbccran
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    I believe guys like Musial, Williams, Aaron, Mays, Cobb, Ruth, Hornsby, etc. would do well in any era.

    And IMHO guys like Gibson, Koufax, Drysdale, Spahn, Marichal, Maddox, etc. were every bit as good (if not better) than most pitchers today.

    The biggest change may be today’s flame throwers out of the bullpen.

    #150897
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    Stand outs can always stand out. But it would not be realistic to say that Williams, Musial, etc would still be career .330+ hitters. Maybe .300. Standout pitchers could still be great. Different eras require different things.

    It’s possible that in 20 years we’ll be talking about the way baseball was played back in the 2010s and wonder how those three outcome guys would fare in the new era of hitting taking place then.

    #150901
    Avatarforsch31
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    One last point about RBIs: almost everyone with 100+ RBIs has at least 25 HRs.

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