What’s Becoming of This Game?

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  • #150261
    Avatarbccran
    Participant

    On another forum, there are some alarming facts listed.

    1.) Last season the K rate (23.5%) was the highest in MLB history. Even with the DH in both leagues. Pitchers only batted 14 times.
    2.) The rate of non-homer extra base hits dropped to it’s lowest point since 1992.
    3.) Batters made less contact than ever in 2020.

    Is it becoming a game of home runs, strike outs, and walks? If so, it’s becoming boring. And is going to continue on a long, steady decline.

    #150279
    Avatargscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    The obsession over launch angle hasn’t helped and the notion that a strikeout is the same as any other out. Hint= it isn’t.

    I wonder if players like Rod Carew, Pete Rose, Tony Gwynn and Wade Boggs could even get a multi-year contract these days since hitting .330 with less than 10 homers isn’t valued the way it used to be.

    #150282
    stlcard25stlcard25
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Pitchers are too good now. It’s destroying offense around the game and players realize that stringing 3-4 hits together off a guy throwing 95+ with at least one wicked breaking pitch isn’t likely. A walk and a homer does the same damage and is easier to achieve.

    Is it boring? Not if your team is winning. But if they are struggling, it can be a slog.

    I’d imagine they would have to think about lowering the mound in the future to help even things back out a bit.

    #150283
    Avatarbccran
    Participant

    When a guy who hits .230, striking out 30% of the time but launching
    30 home runs and achieving a .800+
    OPS signs for huge long term dollars it displays the problem.

    What drives me goofy is to watch a guy at the plate with one out, tie game, last of the 9th, and runners on first and third – take 3 huge swings and head back to the bench.

    #150284
    stlcard25stlcard25
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    I’ll also add that the shift is one of the dumbest things that is allowed in the game. Sure, it has some purpose but it’s aesthetically disgusting and should be banned immediately. Two players on either side of 2B, must play on the dirt. Problem solved. Matt Carpenter says “3 years too late.” Lol

    #150286
    Avatarbccran
    Participant

    I appreciate a close, low scoring game with good pitching and good defense. But I’m not sure the average fan does nowadays. Even if it’s a win. People are looking for the excitement of seeing guys score. It’s like watching a 7-3 score in an NFL game or 1-0 soccer match.

    #150334
    RatsbuddyRatsbuddy
    Participant

    Free

    Herzog said in his book over 20 years ago that we are “Missing A Great Game”…….

    In my mind that has now come to fruition.

    r/Esteemed Rat

    #150752
    bicyclemikebicyclemike
    Moderator

    Paid - Annual

    What is evolving in baseball is similar to the way football went. It used to be that the running game was the key – ball control, with the pass as the way to keep the defenses honest. Teams would rarely pass as many as 30 times. Now we often see 45-50 pass attempts per game.

    With baseball it is all about power – pitching and hitting. It used to be finesse And location could go a long way for pitchers who did not have the physical ability to throw hard. Plus making contact at the plate was usually the primary skill to learn, with some guys muscling up more than others.

    Now organizations have 25 guys who throw 90+, and you do not get a shot unless you can hit the mid 90s. The development of the speed gun has completely changed the pitching paradigm.

    Personally I would prefer more contact, more aggressiveness early in counts, and more running speed in the game. Seems today we are constantly looking at 3-2 counts and a few foul balls before each batter/pitcher confrontation is settled. I get a bit weary when games drag on past 3 hours, and when the bottom of the ninth seems to take 40 minutes.

    It’s still a great game, but is really more appealing at about 2 1/2 hours in length. I do not think the amount of activity or excitement has changed in the average game over the years. So once you take that basic level of excitement and stretch it out over 30-50% more time, it makes it tough for many fans to stay involved.

    #150759
    Avatarbccran
    Participant

    Mike – especially with these guys who take so much time between pitches – step out of the box, re-Velcro their gloves, take a long time to get set again, etc. only to run the count to 3-2 and then swing and miss a high fast ball by a foot.

    #150760
    Avatar858booyah
    Participant

    Free

    Skip Schumaker is to blame for the adjusting of gloves. lol

    I mean games see trends. I see a guy like Jeff McNeil as a throwback who can play in this era. No Carew or Gwynn clearly but guys that get on base are still valuable. Even now where IMO you get guys on your chances of scoring increase with less than 2 outs.

    #150761
    stlcard25stlcard25
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    It’s still a great game, but is really more appealing at about 2 1/2 hours in length. I do not think the amount of activity or excitement has changed in the average game over the years. So once you take that basic level of excitement and stretch it out over 30-50% more time, it makes it tough for many fans to stay involved.

    This is where I think that scheduled 7 inning doubleheaders could help. As Brian said before, teams will calculate that they’d lose out on sales of 2 innings of hot dogs and not do it, so it won’t happen. But I can say that I really enjoyed the doubleheader games thr Cards played this year. Especially the ones where KK Kim pitched.

    #150769
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Reminds me of a true story from long ago. Before games, the media mill around the clubhouse, talking with players individually. At a central table, an equipment rep from a sporting goods company had left samples of his company’s products for the players to try out. There were several boxes of batting gloves. Skip was among the players who walked up and as he was pawing through the gloves, I said to him, “Did you wear out the velcro on your old ones?”

    He looked up at me with a blank expression on his face, said nothing in reply and walked away. I should have known better than joke with him, as he was one of the most serious members of the team, at least around us. I learned a lesson that day to keep my wisecracking among friends.

    #150775
    Avatarbccran
    Participant

    BW – I wonder who would be around that table now, trying on gloves

    As far as activities during a game, I think it has changed. Less stolen bases, sacrifice bunts, hits and run, squeeze plays, etc. Now it’s lots of strike outs and walks between home runs.

    #150777
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    bccran asked:

    I wonder who would be around that table now, trying on gloves

    Well, not Carpenter, for sure! 😉

    #150780
    Avatarbccran
    Participant

    2 Cards are hard to watch at the plate.

    One goes through this long, arduous routine, as the fans, umps, other players, etc. wait for him to finally get ready for the next pitch.

    The other works the count to 3-2, fouls off a bunch of pitches. Then looks at a third strike he thinks is an inch or two off the plate, is called out on strikes, and glares back at the umpire in contempt.

    #150785
    stlcard25stlcard25
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Bader is happy to have your support, bc.

    #150794
    Avatarbccran
    Participant

    25 – I saw him one time walk up to the plate, and he forgot to go through that long arduous, boring routine. He smashed a ball into the gap for a double. See ball, hit ball. He doesn’t need to be a drama queen. He’s making it too complicated. He’s got talent. His problem is a swelled ego. With a little humility I think he could be a fine all around ball player. Key – concentrate on the name on the front of your uniform. Not the number on the back. Goldy should be his role model. He could learn a lot by emulating him.

    #150799
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Because all professional athletes should be cookie-cutter robots… and we can tell by watching them about their level of self-centeredness and lack of team focus. This kind of arm-chair stereotyping is so wrong, objectionable and outdated I don’t know where to begin…

    #150801
    stlcard25stlcard25
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Bader is all hustle and heart. He’s from NYC so you can expect a little showmanship. While he’s not been amazing at the plate, he’s been adequate most years and has shown some improvement of late. He plays great defense and runs the bases well. What’s not to like there?

    #150806
    Avatarmudville
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Well said. Totally agree. Bader is improving.

    #150812
    Avatarbccran
    Participant

    In almost all of his actions, Bader is all about Bader. And, Brian, you know exactly what I’m talking about re his interview. His comment making it clear to reporters (after a horrible 2019 at the plate) – when asked if he was looking forward to competing for the centerfield job he responded – “I’M the starting center fielder for the St. Louis Cardinals!” The guy just doesn’t get it. And you’re right, 25, he’s got that abrasive “me first” NYC persona.
    I went to college in the NE so I know that persona well. Coming out of high school in the Bronx, he commits to playing for U. Of Pittsburgh. Pulls the rug out from underneath them and commits to play for the U. of Maryland. They don’t give him enough money so he pulls the rug out from under them and heads for the U. of Florida. The only real commitment was to Harrison.

    As I said, he has some real talent. I hope Goldy and Waino have a talk with him.

    #150814
    Avatarforsch31
    Participant

    Free

    So much of this game is about routine. The starting pitchers have a routine between starts. There are a lot of times that pitchers aren’t as sharp if they have extra rest between starts. Hitters go through routines that they have had for many years before even becoming a pro. It is something they don’t even think about but they know when they do something out of routine. Almost all pros have an arrogance about them. They are very confident in what their abilities are.

    I would rather have someone who says they are the starter at a position than someone who believes someone else is the starter. The key is that the former is still a positive for the team when they don’t start. A “Tommy Pham” can be a detriment. A “Harrison Bader” can be a teammate. I can’t recall anytime that Bader has said anything negative when he wasn’t starting.

    #150821
    Avatarbccran
    Participant

    I’ll tell you what, Brian. If stereotyping guys like Musial, Schoendiest,
    Brock, Gibson, McGee, Forsch, Holliday, Berkman, Wainwright, Goldschmidt, etc.
    is wrong, objectionable, and outdated, I guess I’ll have to be simple minded, guilty of it, and just stay that way.

    #150822
    stlcard25stlcard25
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    I’d like to have 9 starters with the hustle and confidence of Bader. Seems like a number of our players are lacking it.

    #150823
    jj-cf-stljj-cf-stl
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    “What’s Becoming of This Game?”

    That’s bccran code for “Another Bader Hater Thread”

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