What to do with Gant

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This topic contains 23 replies, has 11 voices, and was last updated by Avatar PadsFS 9 months, 4 weeks ago.

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  • #78514
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    CariocaCardinal
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    You dont hear much trade speculation about Gant but he seems like the odd man out if everyone is healthy given that he is out of options. Wainwright seems destined for the rotation as the #5 guy to start the season. I am not sure he fits as much of an upgrade in a crowded pen. I would think he could bring back a nice trade piece. Maybe a #100-120 prospect? He would be a cheap #4-#5 starter on a lot of teams.

    #78515
    Brian Walton
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    One more season before he even becomes arbitration eligible. Great budget starter for someone.

    #78517
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    CardsFanInChiTown
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    He quietly put up very solid numbers last year, I’d agree that a 75-150 type prospect isn’t out of the question at all to the right situation. I’m sure the Cardinals are being “opportunistic” on moving him.

    Miles, Cmart, Wacha, Flaherty and Waino (with Reyes hopefully spending time in AAA for service time reasons) are likely penciled in unless injury of course.

    Miller, Hicks, Brebbia, Cecil, Shreve, Gregerson, Leone, Gallegos, Ponce, etc are all in line for the BP. And I still think they’ll sign one more piece or trade for one.

    Would Gant and JMart bring back Taylor Rogers and another piece? That would be ideal. I’d love to have them both, but there just isn’t room, especially if they play on adding another decent LH bench bat.

    #78518
    Brian Walton
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    Agree. Ideally packing up two or three redundancies for one roster improvement would be ideal – if the right trade partner can be located.

    #78522
    stlcard25
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    I like Gant and think he is good insurance in case of injury or a solid bullpen arm…but if someone is willing to pay up in prospects I’d be ok with a deal.

    (with Reyes hopefully spending time in AAA for service time reasons)

    I thought Reyes was acrueing time no matter what? That’s what’s made his last two years lost to injury doubly hurtful…he will be arb eligible after 2019.

    #78523
    Brian Walton
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    Players do not accrue MLB service time when optioned to the minors. Rehabs still count.

    To save a year of Reyes’ service would require him to be optioned out for at least two months. Seems pretty unlikely unless he is healthy and struggling.

    IMO, the Cardinals can afford to pay Reyes through arbitration. He won’t be in line to earn as much, anyway, until he can actually pitch and has results to justify his pay increase.

    Definitely too bad that he has been hurt, but nothing can be done about that.

    #78524
    stlcard25
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    IMO, the Cardinals can afford to pay Reyes through arbitration. He won’t be in line to earn as much, anyway, until he can actually pitch and has results to justify his pay.

    I agree that they can and that the arb won’t be expensive. The big hit will come if he turns into the ace he has potential to be and then hits the free agent market. The Cards will lose all the benefit normally pulled from those first three dirt cheap years, which is at least unlucky. But I guess it would beat the alternative of him flaming out.

    #78531
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    gscottar
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    I like Gant a lot. He would be my opening day #5 starter if it were up to me.

    #78580
    jj-cf-stl
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    Reyes optioned down from ST for 60 days sounds good to me.

    #78585
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    Cardinals27
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    I think the #1 thing with Wainright, is that he has to have a good spring training. There should be no handing starting rotation jobs on past glory. Don’t get me wrong, I love what he has done for the Cardinals, and is a class act. But he should not keep Gant, Gomber, Poncedeleon etc. from being the #5, if they have a better spring. I also think Waino would do better in the pen. He could provide multiple innings.

    #78599
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    CardsFanInChiTown
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    jj-cf-stl, your comment of “Reyes optioned down from ST for 60 days sounds good to me.”…..

    Finally someone agrees and supports this with me! That extra year of control is what matters, it was mentioned about the arb salaries being an issue, that is far from the issue, the year of extra control is what does after two have been essentially wasted.

    Alex Reyes being sent to Memphis to stay stretched out to be a starter and be on somewhat of an innings limit would be ideal, and also keep him from wearing down to come up in July, Aug, Sept and hopefully October for the first time in a while to dominate. Win-Win for the Cards…

    #78600
    BlackHillsCard
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    Optioning Reyes is not really ideal for this season. YOu want the best players on the team and the games in April and May are just as important as the games in August and September. If Reyes is ready to go then pitch him.

    #78601
    Brian Walton
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    On Reyes, there is no doubt that manipulating his service time would be good for the team. However, they are only part of the equation. The player matters, too.

    If Reyes struggles, then optioning him out may be justified. But if he dominates like he did last year, sending him down could lead to a union grievance, especially if the time down lasts two months or more. Besides, isn’t the idea to have the best players on the team?

    Be aware that the Cardinals could have optioned him out in 2018, but they did not. They kept him on the roster (on the DL accruing MLB service time) while he rehabbed. I see no difference in 2019. Also, I’ve asked Mo before about gaming service time back to the Rasmus days. He said it isn’t how they work and I’ve never seen the Cardinals do it.

    Folks may remember the Kris Bryant case. It was different in that the Cubs delayed him coming up in the first place, but the end result was the same – hold his service time down. The rumor mill is that Bryant (and his agent Scott Boras) remain angry at the Cubs for how they treated him and he will not sign an extension with them as a result.

    Skirting the rules to try to win the battle but risk losing the war would not be wise – for multiple reasons. With Bill DeWitt in charge, I just cannot see this happening.

    #78603
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    CariocaCardinal
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    I have never understood why people think minor league innings are less stressful

    #78605
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    mudville
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    I think what MO said is completely true for this organization. If the player is ready and can help the team, they bring him up. Carson Kelly was a prime example. They brought Kelly up with both the FO and Kelly knowing he wasn’t going to get many PA’s behind Molina with his 3 yr. contract extension. I think its ethical and admirable for the Cardinals to work that way.

    #78618
    jj-cf-stl
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    Reyes pitched 4 mlb innings last season and has had two short seasons in a row. If the brass wanys him in aaa for 60 days it wouldn’t raise an eyebrow.

    As far as Reyes being needed at mlb because he’s pitching effectively, pick your 100 IP months of the season. You want him done by august or available in Oct? 150 IP is a huge spike, and i wouldn’t call it prudent. More like mis-management.

    Not counting the rotation or Reyes, we have 16 more pitchers on the 40man to field an 8man pen.

    If this staff can’t make it 60days without reyes, we better keep adding this winter.

    #78619
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    gscottar
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    CariocaCardinal

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    I have never understood why people think minor league innings are less stressful

    I have always wondered the same thing. When discussing a pitcher’s work load usually it is only the MLB innings that are focused on, as if a pitcher’s arm becomes biometrically sealed once they enter a minor league ballpark.

    • This reply was modified 9 months, 4 weeks ago by Avatar gscottar.
    #78629
    Brian Walton
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    If Reyes is relieving, he would never get to 100 innings. No reason to waste those innings in Memphis if he is ready to roll. It is really simple. If Reyes is one of the best 12-13 pitchers coming out of camp, and undoubtedly he will be if healthy, he should be on the MLB roster – and he will. If he is not healthy, then yes, he is in the minors on an MLB rehab unless he is totally falling apart. He is a major leaguer. No funny games.

    #78630
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    14NyquisT
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    Besides, isn’t the idea to have the best players on the team?

    There is obvious reasons why this doesn’t happen in STL.

    #78649
    Brian Walton
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    Because Reyes has so much to do with Fowler and Cecil’s big contracts. Every topic must look like a nail when you constantly swing the same hammer.

    #78657
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    PadsFS
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    I don’t really see the pitfall in having Gant as the 6th starter/Long reliever. I posted this not too long ago:

    My rotation and bullpen starts at spring training with

    Rotation –
    Wainwright, Mikolas, Martinez, Wacha, Flaherty

    Backups –
    Reyes, Gomber, Gant, Poncedeleon, Hudson

    Bullpen –
    [Miller] (since signed!)
    Hicks
    Brebbia
    Cecil
    Gregerson
    Leone
    Shreve
    Mayers (8)
    Gallegos (9)
    Webb (10)

    Assuming health and effectiveness, my guess is that Gant knocks Mayers out. Reyes bumps Brebbia or Hicks. Gomber, Ponce, and Hudson start in AAA. Gallegos, Webb, Mayers, and Brebbia/Hicks relive in AAA.

    Then Brebbia/Hicks is the first one up in the bullpen.

    #78659
    Brian Walton
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    Pads, you really think the Cards would put Hicks in Triple-A? Brebbia was the team’s best reliever in 2018 despite being jerked around considerably. Mayers has no options and would likely be lost on waivers. I see a lot of tough decisions ahead.

    #78660
    stlcard25
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    Hicks will absolutely be in St Louis all year unless he’s injured or suddenly pitches terribly. I’d place 2018 as his floor, with a much better 2019 possible.

    Brebbia is very good as well. I’d be at least partially on board with him being the closer. He just gets outs.

    #78663
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    PadsFS
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    I don’t think they are counting on health and effectiveness of all 5 starters and all 8 relievers.

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