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Did anybody see that goofball in the dugout with that thing he had, using it like it was a PA speaker? Here’s a guy that has failed miserably twice in the last three games, pretty much costing the Cardinals two wins, and he apparently acts like he doesn’t give a crap about that.
If I would have failed miserably in those two bases loaded situations like he has there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY I would be acting like a goofball at this point.
r/Rat
It was 3 actually. Tuesday night he came up with sacks packed and failed as well.
I long for more of a professional clubhouse. I think Shildt does as well. Hence the Martinez bullpen excuse. I think he could start they wanted it. He’s pitched 3 innings in 3 days in 2 appearances.
Only issue is if you dump him then who else would you rely on. He has value on the offensive end even if he crumbles like a cookie with the bases loaded. We need all the help we can get!
Rat, Many a hitter better than Martinez is sitting at home right now watching games on Tv because they are unable to forget the last at bat. At this level the game is highly mental and in a game where failure is the norm the ability not to dwell on past failure is key. So I have no.problem with Martinez not sulking on the bench because he had a couple of bad at bats at critical times.
Professional players don’t sit and dwell on their failures. That’s why they’re in the big leagues and not out of the game.
Ultimately, I suspect he’s off the team next year and there will be some new whipping boy who’s expected to toe the line. Are we longing to go back to the Matheny era now?
Goold mentioned it, but i saw the same thing as when Zimmerman went into the Nats dugout and noone moved. I like that our players seem to like each other. Look at Seattle with the clubhouse brawl too.
The fact is baseball is a sport that is fun to play. The more professional you make everything (off the field, in the dugout, mind you), the less fun the game is and more likely the players will tighten up.
Grant you, I personally don’t act this way, but I’ve always appreciated playing with guys that do joke around when i play sports. The intense guys cause me to not even try, which is perhaps Matheny’s undoing.
Some are lining up on both sides of this view. This is “what have you done for me lately”. Well, if anyone should be able to be a “goofball” right now its JoMart. Here’s a guy that’s probably one of the worst defenders in baseball actually playing the field. His hitting has kept him there all season… all season. He didn’t go into a tailspin at any time… just consistently hitting well. He kept himself on the field… a place where he doesn’t belong.
I’m sure that there are some players on this team who welcome his antics, some not so much.
I’ve gotten to like JM. Yes, he is foolish at times…. but at least he is leading the team in AVR., and not a guy who has the worst BA in MLB. If he was we wouldn’t be seeing him around.
Hey,Cafe. You can hit well and still act a little more professional.
I have not seen the antics JMart did. However, us not being in that locker room or dugout, we do not know whether or not these sort of things help loosen the tension, or are immature pranks that teammates wish would stop. And if the manager does not put a stop to it, then they must be okay. If it was not okay, I would think Shildt would put JMart in his place, similar to how Yogi Berra knocked Phil Linz’ harmonica out of his mouth when he started to play it on the bus after a tough Yankee loss in the midst of a pennant race.
JMart seems like a loose, fun-loving guy who is outgoing and sort of a prankster. I think that is just what you get with him, and most guys are fine with it.
One thing to keep in mind – pennant race baseball is extremely intense and the daily pressure on the players is significant. The guy in my avatar, Ken Boyer, had smoked cigarettes as a younger guy, but quit in his late 20s. He went back to them during the late stages of the 1964 season, as a way to cope with the grind and pressure of the pennant race. Unfortunately he was never able to give them up after that, and died at a young age due to smoking-related issues. But that shows just how much pressure guys feel when they are fighting for a flag, or in today’s game, fighting to get a chance to go after a flag.
Hey, he’s the best hitter on the team. Has been all year. If he wants to be a goofball, let him. As long as those RBIs keep coming. It doesn’t bother me. And apparently it doesn’t bother his teammates.
I can see where JMart’s antics would irritate the old school crowd. Really I can.
However, the front office probably doesn’t care too much because .300 hitters with power that make the league minimum are hard to find.
I am not old school but his are just stupid. I loved Joe Kelly’s, I love Wainos’s and many others. But his are ridiculous.
Why would Waino and Joe Kelly’s antics be fine but not JMart’s? Just curious.
Personally, I’m not a fan of antics at all but I would imagine players that produce on the field are given more leeway than players that don’t. I’ve never cared for some of Waino’s stuff in the dugout but as long as he was a potential 20 game winner I didn’t care.
If Brett Cecil were acting like a fool in the dugout instead of just on the mound I imagine people wouldn’t like it.
I am old school, and was managed by old school (Wally Moon).
Antics like Bozo’s weren’t allowed. Our actions were intended to represent the team we were part of.
Acting like a clown makes the team look like a clown, because it’s the impression others remember.
In the clubhouse? Much more relaxed atmosphere. That’s where the clowning around should take place, not in front of the cameras, or on the field.
Old school wants serious and focused on the field, and so do I.
Well said jj-cf-stl.
Cardinal baseball is old school, hard nosed, serious baseball. Not goofy stuff and clowning around in front of Cardinal Nation. I wouldn’t mind if both Jose and Carlos were not around next year.
r/Rat
I prefer a professional approach for the most part during the game. That doesn’t mean the guys can’t have a laugh and enjoy themselves during the game, but it’s important to have good situational awareness. Contrived, orchestrated antics can take the focus away from where it should be. For every player who thinks it’s cool, there is likely a player who would prefer to stick more to business. They have to figure out how to balance it among themselves.
There really is only one way to approach these things. If it’s a position player doing the attempt at comedy and he’s hitting north of .300, I’m laughing no matter how good or bad it is. Sprinkle in some power with that .300 BA and I’m laughing my arse off. Now if the jokester just happens to be vying for the Triple Crown……I’m rolling on the ground, arms and legs flailing all about and laughing like a rabid hyena. Now if the joker is having a Fowler type of year and makes funny, I’m laughing loudly as I walk up to him….and just as we get nose to nose I stop laughing on a dime and just glare into his eyes for a few seconds. And then right before turning around and walking off, I give him a quick little slap along the side of his head.
And then right before turning around and walking off, I give him a quick little slap along the side of his head.
Sort of like……”Four inches from your chest Pyle, four inches!”
or like
“What side was that Private Pyle?”Euro…. good comment. If JoMa is getting out of control its probably the coaches that should step in privately. But CMart has been doing this for years now, so I don’t know what’s next for Cafe. “What’s good for the goose….”. Children look for attention. Maybe a face to face with the manager.
Maybe its a matter of the team’s momentum and not wanting the controversy. There will be more pressure in the next few weeks. The best solution may be for someone to say “tone it down” or “cut it the hell out”.
Let’s face it….. we’re getting old gang. I used to see these promos for upcoming new comedy shows and be able to quickly and accurately pinpoint which shows were going to be a success and which ones would flop. I have noticed these past few years that my success rate is getting poorer with each passing year. It goes without saying that what we find humorous at age 25 might not be met with the same degree of chuckles at age 55. If I had to venture a guess, I would say that most of those players find Jose’s humor to be quite entertaining, while most of we 50+’s would turn our noses up at it. We’re not getting older, we’re getting…….less fun to be around.
“Old school” was not always so different than today. You had Dizzy Dean and some of those crazies building a fire in front of the dugout and huddling around like it was sub-zero weather, when the temperature was 100 degrees,
You had Bob Uecker, before a World Series game no less, trying to catch pre-game fly balls in a tuba. That antic was frowned upon by “old school” GM Bob Howsam, who wanted Uecker off the team after that but managed to put up with him another year before including him in the deal that sent Bill White to the Phillies for Alex Johnson and others.
Face it gents, us guys in our 20s to mid-30s were cut-ups. We did silly things, and guys today do silly things. We might look back on some of these antics years later and wonder why we acted so stupid, but it happened then, it happens now, and it will happen in the future.
Should Shildt come up with a manual describing which antics are allowable and which aren’t? If that sounds absurd it is because it is. You can’t play favorites if you want a cohesive clubhouse. What one person considers funny or stupid might be completely different to the next person. Hopefully the good old boys aren’t being treated differently than the non good old boys.
As I stated before, if it were up to me, none of the shenanigans would be allowed and we would be totally professional, however, if you are going to let one player do it then the others should be allowed also.
The world is a-changing…. oh yeah…. big time.
We know things that younger people don’t… but they know more about today than we do. And the world turns.
Our parents freaked out with the rise of rock ‘n roll. Parents today just go with the flow, living in their children’s lives to stay young.
Im old school for a lot of stuff, but this doesnt bother me at all. I want a loose team, one that can roll with the punches and get back up. Sitting and sulking isnt going to help anything.I’m old, but these players aren’t…and they want to have fun while they play. There is nothing wrong with that.
HAs JMart been laughing and smiling as he struck out at the plate and skipped his way back to the dugout giving high fives on his failure that is one thing. But he didnt do that, he shook it off, kept it loose and didnt let HIS mistake bring down or mess up anyone else’s preparation.
Look at the CWS games, and Little League WS games. These kids and ballplayers LOVE playing the game and playing together and you can feel the energy that oozes from them and it is great to see.
If this is an old school new school thing discussion perhaps we should not forget that the oldest of the schools is playing with your friends in the sandlot or park and having a good time while you do it.
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