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We don’t seem to have a thread about this. Looks like bad news.
#STLCards manager Oli Marmol said that LF Tyler O'Neill (back strain) is scheduled to meet with the team's doctors later today about his lingering discomfort.
O'Neill, who has been out since May 5, was scheduled to go out on an MiLB rehab assignment today, but it was scratched.
— John Denton (@JohnDenton555) May 18, 2023
And Mo seems to be losing patience with Tyler (see below).
I asked about Tyler O'Neill
Mo:"One of the things you need to have happen w/ position players is the ability for them to play.That's a skill.The ability to show up everyday even when you're not feeling 100% & being able to go"
Full quote below.
Podcast: https://t.co/E08uKc3aDV pic.twitter.com/r1moOUXdZP
— Brandon Kiley (@BKSportsTalk) May 18, 2023
I was a big O’Neill fan early in his career and thought he should have played more than he was being used. Then he had the break out 2021, and I figured he was on his way to consistent 35 homer, 20-25 stolen bases, .900 OPS seasons with solid defense.
Instead he has spent a lot of time on the DL and seems to be back to where he does not anticipate pitches well.
He may still have another good season or two, but you wonder whose uniform he will be wearing. If it is anyone but the Cubs, I will wish him the best and hope he taps into that potential again like in ‘21.
Oh, and whatever is going on I don’t like seeing our POBO dissing the players like that. Instead something like “It’s frustrating having a guy like Tyler out, and I am sure he is more frustrated than anyone about it.” Leave the condescending comments to off-the-record conversations.
OlliMo has had O’Neill in the cross hairs since hustlegate a few weeks ago. It seems clear to me that O’Neill doesn’t think he deserves to ride the pine as much as he has this year and no longer gives a rodent’s backside.
O’Neill will either be traded this July or non-tendered this winter. His whiffs and injuries are going to cost him a lot of money. Good luck getting much of a deal as a free agent.
O’Neill is under contract through 2024, correct?
The Cardinals are not obligated to him next year if they don’t want to be.
I really like Ty’s talent and ability. But he struggles with pitch selection, pitch recognition and the mental approach at the plate.
But with that compact stroke and all that power, someone will give him a shot. I can see him being a latter day Terry Pendleton. He will be let free by us, and put it together elsewhere and win an MVP.
Then again, if he still approaches each at bat from a stand point of guessing rather than thinking and anticipating pitch location, it will be same old, same old.
Mike, I recently read the same concern about Yepez going elsewhere and producing better. If a change of scenary is good for them, turn them loose, I only care how they are effecting our roster.
You can’t keep everyone who might produce better. We are already keeping Carlson and Burleson who we hope will produce better.
The roster gets stagnant w/out trying to upgrade. Tyler has had abundant opportunities. If Bow tie can’t get a bag of balls for him by the deadline, DFA him, and bring Walker back. I’ve moved on from him already.
Folks seem to only remember the Arozarenas and Garcias. The difference is that when they left, they were relatively unproven. As noted, O’Neill is much, much more experienced. At some point, maybe a change of address would be best for all.
I was curious and looked up Pendleton again. He had seven years with StL before two great years with Atlanta and dropped off from there.
Yeah, Pendleton was a well established everyday 3B’man who was a mainstay player on 2 Redbird pennant winning teams prior to entering The FA market and signing with the highest bidding Braves. O’Neill may well go somewhere else and excel, but he hasn’t proven near to the degree as had Pendleton that he has the abilty to consistently feature even what could be termed an above average performance. Pendleton was signed to a FA contract by the Braves that provided both length and a lot of money for back then and if I recall rightly, several teams attempted to sign him.
O’Neill has two things he needs to do to be like he was in 2021 – the plate approach improvement that I mentioned, and staying on the field.
I am pretty much in the same camp as most here. While I like what O’Neill can do, I am a bit surprised he has not stayed closer to his 2021 level and think it best for all parties that he move on from the Cardinal organization. Just don’t send him to the Cubs or Brewers please. 😀
I was never a big O’Neill fan. I’m still mad they kept him over Arozrena and the fact they traded Adolis Garcia for a bag of baseballs. Both guys are better than the current outfield. I seriously believe something in the FO is broken for their evaluations to be so terrible now. I mean O’Neill may have been experienced but he only had 1 good year. He was like Ozuna and the Cards traded away a cy young winner and another ace. Its the analysis and scouting thats broken.
Its the analysis and scouting thats broken.
I think its really a matter of measurable data has to fit within certain parameters, or exceed certain minimums or not exceed certain maximums. A guy either passes or he doesn’t.
In my mind Walker illustrates the situation. We all saw him at the plate when he was up. After a week or so, he saw almost nothing but fadeaway sliders from righties. We also saw that he had no prayer of ever hitting one unless it was misplaced and came too far inside.
This is relevant because I know for certain that in the Texas League it is not terribly unusual for a right handed hitter to see a pretty good slider that slides on off the white just like the ones Walker couldn’t hit. I know this because I have attended countless AA games.
This means Walker saw them too, and wouldn’t have been able to hit them there either. Not the good ones. But, the thing is, either nobody noticed or nobody cared. Certainly nobody recognized the relevance. He wouldn’t have seen too many really good ones at that level, but enough to have established that he couldn’t hit them. From there you know what is going to happen in the higher levels, including MLB. That hole will be exploited and he will see nothing but. So it has to be addressed and fixed or you are wasting your time.
One wonders how that isn’t seen and understood. Too me, it seems like the answer might be that the people watching have a job, which is collecting data. Making sure the data set is accurate and complete. You aren’t going to see much else with your face stuck to your radar gun or laptop screen. In the case of Walker, some of that data was apparently off the charts, and there was plenty of attention paid to that. All of the attention was paid to that. None of which mattered once he got to MLB. The thing that did matter would have been apparent, but nobody was paying attention.
The thing that did matter would have been apparent, but nobody was paying attention.
Who has the capability to do that? Do they know what they should be paying attention to? Or did the corporation marginalize itself by getting rid of much of that skill set?
Data analytics are good at explaining what happened, but not nearly as good as to why or how things happened. There’s escalating uncertainty as you go down the “what, why, what’s next” progression. Given that, data analysts are not nearly as good at explaining what WILL happen. They don’t see the confounding variables bling mentions. It’s surprising how many “analysts” forget a basic stats 101 objective like that. Or maybe they never knew it. But really not unsurprising, because they’re paid to give hard hitting, implementable information that will solve the boss’ problems. Not so much to warn why uncertainty abounds when analysts don’t understand some of the key factors.
The Cardinals talent evaluators seem to miss a lot on athleticism. Not sure how they go about things, but as Euro points out the data analysis is only part of it. You also need to look at a guy’s skill set – build, speed, wrist and hands when applying bat to ball, instincts, including how a guy approaches pitch recognition and the count, arm, how he plays balls hit in his defensive area, etc. It seems like the Cardinals tend to over value data and under value old fashioned “what you see” when assessing potential.
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