Tommy Edman – Center Field?

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This topic contains 30 replies, has 17 voices, and was last updated by Avatar 14NyquisT 1 month, 1 week ago.

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  • #110738
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    SoonerinNC
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    He doesn’t profile well offensively as a third baseman or corner outfielder. And he seems to get a good jump on the ball and has an excellent arm. If he is going to play in the outfield why not center field.

    If we don’t move Wong I don’t see him as the third baseman of the future.

    #110739
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    RememberDiz
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    Interesting thought. There are actually four players that need to be considered in the discussion.

    Age 28 Wong: Brought up as a hitter. Is probably the best defensive player of the group. Has shown some power, excellent speed on the basepaths (almost doubles the nearest Card in steals). Probably ready to be a consistent 280-300 hitter. Still too many Ks.

    Age 25 DeJong: has become a very good SS. Great power for a SS. Ks on the rise, but OBP remaining level. Average falling. Decent speed, not highly productive aspect of his game. Fielding and power potential are positives. Rising Ks and falling BA is becoming a concern. Still young.

    Age 24 Edman: Good hitter. Better at third than Carpenter, lot better hitter. Has shown more power in majors than in minors. Improving base running skills. Good speed. {Probably will be a 280-310 hitter with 15-20 HR power. Seems good wherever he plays. Haven’t seen him at one position enough to see if he is really good at it. Needs to have a position assignment, develop skills at one position.

    Age 19 Gorman: Probably the third baseman of the future. Seems to have excellent power potential. Hits well at his age. Fielding demonstrated some improvement in second year, but not major league yet. 920-940 FA. Has more HR in two years than Edman did in four. Thirty doubles and six tripls this year. Too many Ks, but is 19, one of the youngest in his league. Probably AA, some AAA in 2020. May touch majors in 2021, certainly by 2022.

    Have one too many. Do you put Edman in CF? Does he have that kind of speed and talent. Looked good in right. Do you give up on Bader at 25? He is really good in the OF, has dropped off in hitting in the past two years, especially this year. It seems that the more they see of him, they have found a way to get him to strike out. Killing him. Needs to learn to hit old school. Probably better power than Edman, but has to get to the 260 mark to play. With his defense, he’s my starter at 260 if he can hold Ks to 100. Learn to hit ground balls and run.

    #110740
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    Cardinal in France
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    “He doesn’t profile well offensively as a third baseman”

    I’m afraid I don’t know what that means.

    #110741
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    CardsFanInChiTown
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    I love Bader’s glove in CF, and actually look forward to balls getting hit his way to watch him BUT his bat isn’t developing and you can’t have a 2nd pitcher in the lineup.

    Unfortunately Lane Thomas got hurt, but watching him before that makes me think either he or Randy Arozarena will be the starting CF in April 2020. Both of them have above average gloves and have the potential to be a plus in the lineup.

    #110742
    bicyclemike
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    Good point on Thomas. He, Arozarena, or possibly O’Neill could end up with the most playing time in Center next year unless Bader learns to hit at a .260-.275 clip.

    Don’t mind Edman at third if he can generate decent EBH power. Good glove, arm, and speed. Some of the lack of traditional corner power is made up by DeJong.

    #110744
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    forsch31
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    I would welcome Edman as the starting CFer if he proves in spring training that he has a good enough glove out there. The only way I wouldn’t do that is if Bader proves he can hit around .260-.270 and cut down on the strikeouts. Although, if Arozarena is good enough of a fielder in CF, he certainly has the bat to start there.

    I would trade O’Neill before we lose most of his trade value. He strikes out WAY too much. We don’t need a Dave Kingman. If we could package him for a #2 SP or an ace closer, the team would be better off.

    #110745
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    Onyxgem
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    No he struggles playing defense in corner OF no way would i put him as CF

    #110746
    Brian Walton
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    I don’t see it as a problem or a good fit. Having a super sub is a luxury that becomes a necessity as soon as one of the regular starters is injured. The 2019 Cardinals got off pretty easy in the injury department, but we cannot assume that will continue in 2020.

    I love Edman, but watching some of his routes in right makes center a scary thought for me. They need him too badly to send him to the minors to really learn how to play the position.

    Plus as noted, the team already has multiple players who are plus defenders at the position who need to play there to show if they can stick. I pass on the idea of making Tommy a regular in CF, but would not be against having him ready for emergency duty there (along with every other spot on the diamond).

    Think “Secret Weapon II”!

    #110749
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    We would not be playing in the playoffs without Tommy Edman. He makes the Cardinals go. He is a switch hitter with speed that has the versatility to play almost any position. That makes him an extremely important player.

    #110762
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    gscottar
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    “He doesn’t profile well offensively as a third baseman”

    I’m afraid I don’t know what that means.

    I agree CIF. Attaching a certain offensive profile to a certain position in the field has never made sense to me. Why do 3B and 1B have to be power hitters? Why? As long as you have enough power hitters, hit for average hitters, OBP hitters, in the lineup what difference does it make what position they play?

    #110765
    Ratsbuddy
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    BicycleMike wrote:

    Good point on Thomas. He, Arozarena, or possibly O’Neill could end up with the most playing time in Center next year unless Bader learns to hit at a .260-.275 clip.

    BikeMike,
    Cant believe you are using batting average. That is so 1960s and 1970s. All that matters is Bader has a FGIT of 4.32 and a BAPID of .338 and a WRA of 2.18. He is so valuable.

    Just like some on here used to say that Tyler Greene was valuable.

    r/Esteemed Rat

    #110771
    Brian Walton
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    While I understand the generic profile point, let’s get specific. The Cards need (and will need even more so when Ozuna leaves) more power from their lineup. It isn’t coming from Edman, whose primary skills are elsewhere.

    If the Cards want to add more power via trade or free agency, it would more likely come from an outsider who plays a position like corner outfield, first or third base. Certainly Edman could play one of those spots instead, but that just means one less place to put a player offering needed power. (Of course several of those positions are blocked already, limiting the team’s flexibility even further.)

    For example, some here have advocated signing Moustakas as a free agent. Would you rather not sign him because they have Edman already? (I am just using this name as an example.)

    All things equal, as an everyday player, Edman would be a better fit for most any team at second or short. That is nothing against him. It is how good teams are constructed. As I said before, I am fine with him as a super sub initially, being ready to take over one spot when someone is injured. There will be plenty of at-bats to go around in 2020, especially if Shildt becomes a little more flexible with his lineups. To get Tommy in there, he will figure it out.

    P.S. To those who assert that Carpenter and his contract could not be traded, talk to me about Allen Craig. I am not saying the Cards WILL trade Carp, but it is wrong to assume he COULDN’T be. I suspect he has more trade value than Fowler, but it could get down to how much money the Cardinals would be willing to eat.

    #110778
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    SoonerinNC
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    I had no idea that Tommy is considered a bad outfielder. From my unlearned observation there doesn’t seem to be nearly as many balls dropping around him as with Fowler, Martinez, Ozuna. (last two a no brainer).

    By not profiling as a 3b on offense he looks to be a 10-18 home run guy. Ideally we have one who pops 30-40.

    Ozuna appears to be on a charge that will improve his free agent contract.

    #110785
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    Tommy is not a bad outfielder…he is not a bad anything. Some people will complain and criticize anything.

    #110792
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    gscottar
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    P.S. To those who assert that Carpenter and his contract could not be traded, talk to me about Allen Craig. I am not saying the Cards WILL trade Carp, but it is wrong to assume he COULDN’T be. I suspect he has more trade value than Fowler, but it could get down to how much money the Cardinals would be willing to eat.

    I am not sure that is apple to apples. Craig was younger, owed less money, and probably a more logical bounce back candidate than Carp considering the age and the amount of time in decline.

    #110822
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    PadsFS
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    Ratsbuddy

    BikeMike,
    Cant believe you are using batting average. That is so 1960s and 1970s. All that matters is Bader has a FGIT of 4.32 and a BAPID of .338 and a WRA of 2.18. He is so valuable.

    Disregarding the undertone for looking at baseball a little differently, Bader has all the tools to be successful, some of which show up in some of his peripheral or non-traditional stats, except hitting for average. If he does that, then he is a star.

    #110830
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    CardsFanInChiTown
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    Can we all agree zero comparisons should be made to Bozo’s glove in the OF? It’s so ugly to watch I cringe on easy pop outs directly to him. Hopefully they find a taker for him the the AL, because when he got regular ABs he was a heck of a hitter!

    #110832
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    Minuteman3
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    <No he struggles playing defense in corner OF no way would i put him as CF>

    uh huh, chuckling. I would be interested in some specifics of his ‘struggles’ in RF. I may need to clean my rose colored glasses. I find it hard to believe that the Cardinals finally have a good rookie ballplayer who is doing exactly what they ask of him, regardless of position played, and so many of the couch coaches look at him in a negative light because he doesn’t hit 50 home runs and strike out 300 times in a season. Count our blessings that we have a player with that much early talent and hope he can expand on it for years to come. BTW – I don’t want him in CF either. As for his ‘struggles’ it seems to me he practices the philosophy of ‘See Ball….Catch Ball’ on defense and ‘See Ball….Hit Ball’ on offense.

    #110839
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    forsch31
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    Minuteman, I don’t understand. You have basically put Edman on a pedestal. Also, you have pretty much proclaimed anyone who believes he should be MAINLY playing middle infield or CF as a person who wants to get rid of him. Why wouldn’t you want him to play CF? His bat and speed could be a great benefit to the team there.

    #110863
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    PadsFS
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    CardsFanInChiTown

    Can we all agree zero comparisons should be made to Bozo’s glove in the OF? It’s so ugly to watch I cringe on easy pop outs directly to him. Hopefully they find a taker for him the the AL, because when he got regular ABs he was a heck of a hitter!

    Only if you quit calling someone on the team Bozo.

    #110865
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    Minuteman3
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    <Only if you quit calling someone on the team Bozo.>

    Bozos are not limited to the Cards. There are quite a few on this board at times, especially during and after a loss and during a win when we are behind. Such is life.

    #110916
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    atripleshyofthecycle
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    Edman has actually graded out really well in RF this year by metrics. He sometimes looks like an infielder playing outfield, but that’s because he’s an infielder playing outfield. But he’s done the job out there defensively this year, and he’s done it remarkably well.

    I’m with Brian, though, in that his value is in being able to play everywhere, and his success in the outfield is likely an anomaly. Permanently moving him to the OF isn’t going to help him or the Cardinals.

    Lastly, those who think Edman is going to be a 120 OPS+ guy for the balance of his career are likely suffering from Joe McEwing Fan Disease. He’s not going to slug .500 very often, if ever again, and his on base skills aren’t great, either. He’s more of a .725 – .750 OPS guy than he is the .850 OPS guy he’s been this year (sorry to those of you that see those stats as a foreign language).

    But he is a nice player that has done his job all over the place this year. He has real value – but not as a full time outfielder.

    #111021
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    PugsleyAddams
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    Why couldn’t Tommy Edman get even better? He certainly looks like he has it in him.

    #111025
    Dave
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    Who do we go with in the first 2 games? Waino and Miko or Miko and Waino? Also if Wacha is available for the NLCS, do you start him in game 4 or DH?

    #111029
    Dave
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    Probably won’t watch the Nats- Dodgers game as I am choosing to spend the night with the wife watching a couple movies we got from the Box.
    On the menu tonight is Linguini and clams with some French Baguette.

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