StL 2019 Game 70 thread: Sat 6/15 at Mets

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This topic contains 44 replies, has 13 voices, and was last updated by Avatar gscottar 1 month ago.

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  • #94552
    BlackHillsCard
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    How many more games is the FO/Coaching staff gonna give away by starting Wach-uh?

    #94553
    stlcard25
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    Wacha was bad, to be sure…and thd experiment probably needs to end. They may not be able to come back in this one (although the Mets bullpen will have something to say about it), but I like the new running Redbirds.

    #94554
    stlcard25
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    Carpenter up now with the bases juiced and a chance to do damage…and he strikes out. He used to be unbelievable with the bases loaded, but this year he has been noticeably worse. That drops his career batting average in such situations to .500.

    #94555
    stlcard25
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    I guess you take chances sometimes but not a great way to lose there. Flaherty was out by a mile. Seems kinda silly when you have Goldschmidt on deck and would have runners at 2nd and 3rd.

    #94556
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    Dave
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    With Goldschmidt on deck, probably not a good idea to send Flaherty but I do appreciate the Cardinals aggressiveness. Even in a loss, there was plenty of positives to take from the game. Let’s forget about this one, build on the good from it and try to win the series tomorrow.

    #94557
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    Dave
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    The irony is if Molina was still in there , he’s probably not sent. Oh well, hindsight is 20/20

    #94558
    Ratsbuddy
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    Cubs trail the Doyers 1-0 in the last of the 6th at Doyer Stadium. Verdugo’s dong the only big hit in this one. Still three innings to go though. But Walker Buehler has only allowed one hit through six innings so far.

    r/Esteemed Rat

    #94559
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    RememberDiz
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    At the rate that Carpenter and Goldschmidt have been hitting, I would have taken a chance on Flaherty. It is more likely that they make a mistake on the recovery, transfer, or throw than that Goldschmidt get a hit.

    I’m more concerned as to why we can’t use a pitcher who can throw strikes rather than hit a batter or walk the winning run across with the bases loaded. Can’t we throw strikes?

    #94562
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    Minuteman3
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    If you have to lose a game then this is the kind you would choose to lose. I saw a lot of ‘spunk’ in the team tonight and they almost managed to overcome Wacha’s horrible start.

    When Goldsmith stayed in the game I was hoping they would take Carpenter out and leave Munoz at 3B. Carpenter is a joke this season. I almost soiled myself when McLaughlin said something to the effect “Carpenter is one of the best hitters in baseball history.” He based that on ONE grand slam.

    Thor is none too swift to the plate and Ramos looked like he was throwing discus on those tosses. Glad to see the Cards take those many steals. As I said before I think the team is ready to do battle for the rest of the season.

    #94563
    stlcard25
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    I almost soiled myself when McLaughlin said something to the effect “Carpenter is one of the best hitters in baseball history.” He based that on ONE grand slam.

    To be fair, he was hitting .510 in his career with 73 RBI in 71 plate appearances with the bases loaded. Grand slams aren’t the only measure of effectiveness, and Carpenter had most certainly been great in those situations.

    #94564
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    Minuteman3
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    < Carpenter had most certainly been great in those situations.>

    But far from ‘greatest in baseball history. Plus this isn’t talking career, it is what are you doing for us this season and the answer is NOT MUCH. If it were not for the extension and that hot streak last season he would be on the bench. Yes, he has his moments but so do most players.

    I think Pop may have made a major mistake sending Flaherty on that last play. But Pop probably had more reasons than I know of. Still – with Goldy waiting on deck………….oh well.

    #94567
    stlcard25
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    But far from ‘greatest in baseball history.

    I can’t find all time stats on anything but grand slams, but I doubt many have a batting average better than .500 in that many chances. So I wouldn’t call it that hyperbolic. It’s definitely not laughable to say it.

    I agree that he’s not pulling his weight this year. Between he, Goldy and Flaherty, that’s three guys we expected to be stars that have been average at best. That’s the difference between mediocre and a very good season so far.

    #94569
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    PugsleyAddams
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    Goldy’s mediocrity has been a major disappointment for me thus far. His uninspiring bat has gone way past your garden variety slump in duration. Our light hitting former catcher (Kelly) has nearly as many rbi as Goldy this year. Did Arizona see some worrisome signs and decided that they needed to unload him asap? I think that possibility certainly exists and if so, who better to dangle in front of than one of the biggest suckers in the pond.

    #94572
    bicyclemike
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    It has been an early season where there have been plenty of disappointments. Mikolas, Carpenter, Miller, and Hudson are a few who have not done as well as expected. But each of those guys has done well at times, and Hudson looks to be getting better as the season progresses.

    Goldschmidt, outside of that three home run game in what, the second game of the year, has been disappointing all season. I usually do not like deals where we trade three young players for the one veteran that you think you need, but loved the Goldschmidt deal. I thought he would bring consistent middle-of-the-order production, but it just has not happened.

    Shildt did not help the situation when he had him hitting second for so long, although I doubt that had anything to do with it. I do not think there is the “can only hit in this spot” syndrome like there seems to be with Carpenter.

    I still think Goldy’s numbers will be there at the end of the season, but also would have thought he had progressed more by now.

    #94573
    bicyclemike
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    Oh, and a quick comment on the Carpenter bases-loaded thing. He had historically produced in that situation, but to think that the past is a predictor of the current is not right.

    I can understand a broadcaster stating the facts, but then it sort of leads you to think “If he has hit .500 in this situation, then he has a 50/50 shot at a hit here”. Reality is he is more likely to hit based on his career results, weighted some to what he has done in recent games.

    Gotta take all those micro-stats with a heavy dose of salt. At the end of a guy’s career we can say, “Wow, this guy really produced in this area”. But while their career is playing out, the past does not predict the likelihood of a current specialized event.

    #94584
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    14NyquisT
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    It looked like Flaherty was stumbling between third and home and it still took a great throw to get him. I would have sent him, especially with Goldschmid coming up.Tough loss but a very entertaining game. Good aggressive base running and a solid offense. I can’t wait to watch today’s game. Hudson is becoming a sneaky good pitcher.

    #94596
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    Minuteman3
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    I have expressed this before but it seems when we hit a homerun in the first inning bad things eventally happen and we lose. Well that happened again but the guys did try to fight off the bad things for sure but it is hard to overcome 5 run leads.

    I always proclaim that I support any player wearing the birds on the bat. Sometimes though I have to think that maybe I am fibbing because I have never been a fan of Matt Carpenter. Perhaps because it is because of McLaughlins constant praise and telling us what a good eye he has but all I see is him watching strikes going by and then whining to the HPU about how he was robbed. Combined with his less than average defense in past seasons (improved this season) and terrible throwing arm I fail to see where he is the best guy for the position. But then that’s my view and I am sure others think he is the second coming. Then last season we had to go through that salsa baloney and I see that he now has a much less promoted breakfast crunch. Some days I have to eat my words about him but that is true about a lot of players. I just have to tell myself they are all big leaguers and can strike at any time (meaning they can make life hard for your team.)

    GO CARDS

    #94602
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    SoonerinNC
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    I hope what I am going to say about Carpenter is all wrong by the end of the season. I said after last year that we should trade him to any team that thinks he will hit 36 home runs again. Apparently the Cardinals are the only team to believe that since we extended him.

    I liked Carpenter better as a getting on base hitter than a home run hitter. Now he appears to be trying to be both. He is consistently taking fat pitches until he is behind 0-2. Then he strikes out on a pitch out of the zone or takes one in the zone for a called strike and complains about it. That is not doing him any favor with the umps. I suspect opposing pitchers see him as a guy that is easy to get two quick strikes.

    He seems to be a very stubborn guy. Will not bat anywhere but leadoff. Once hit a lot of opposite field balls but now tries to drive the ball through the shift with the left side virtually wide open.

    I don’t fault Shildt for sending him up there with the bases loaded because even with my complaints about him I have to admit he seems to get a number of what I consider pressure hits.

    #94606
    Brian Walton
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    Only one correction, Sooner. I have seen no evidence that Carpenter has ever asked to be placed in a particular spot in the lineup. In fact, I have heard him assert the opposite multiple times over the years. He is stubborn for sure, but not about this.

    #94618
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    gscottar
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    Don Denkinger is still alive I believe. He will never live that call down though. If we had instant replay in 1985 the Cards would be 12 time World Champs. Oh well.

    As for Carp, I still shake my head over that extension. It made no sense then and make less now. With the exception of Matt Holliday the Cardinals have a real problem letting go of past stars. They just can’t do it. I don’t think we will ever rise again until the Carp, Yadi, Waino era is over.

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