Potential Future Lineup

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  • #189716
    Bob Reed
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    “Good idea. I’d trade Gomez before I’d trade Burleson.”

    Yup.

    “You would also get a lot less for him.”

    Double-yup.

    Other front offices are doubtless examining Moises’ Double-A numbers this year, mentally regressing his BABIP to a more reasonable .350 or so, and ending up with a .240 guy striking out 35% of the time despite being slightly old for his league (24 next month). That’s a combustible combo.

    Malcom Nunez is probably viewed more favorably by outsiders. Less defensive value than Moises, but steady reasonable strikeout rates for his career, plus a blossoming patience/power combo — and he’s 2 1/2 years younger than Gomez. Big, big difference there.

    Prediction! It’ll be Nunez plus Connor Thomas to some team, for someone. And Connor Thomas will turn into another Marco Gonzales by 2024, and Nunez into another Juan Yepez by 2025. For me that’s a bit too much for 1 1/3 seasons of the oft-injured Frankie Montas, but not near enough for 2 1/3 years of German Marquez.

    #189717
    stlcard25
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    Paid - Annual

    Other front offices are doubtless examining Moises’ Double-A numbers this year, mentally regressing his BABIP to a more reasonable .350 or so, and ending up with a .240 guy striking out 35% of the time despite being slightly old for his league (24 next month). That’s a combustible combo.

    Or he could be Adolis Garcia, who none of us figured would work out like he did.

    #189727
    bccran
    Participant

    What has happened to Jhon Torres? Highly regarded prospect who now can’t hit worth a lick.

    #189736
    14NyquisT
    Participant

    I thought that Torres would break out this season (and said so here)…. not happening. He was bothered by early season injury and really hasn’t got going. He’ll be on my break out list for ’23….there’s a lot of talent there.

    #189901
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Unless Torres gets moving ahead soon, he probably won’t make it before reaching free agency (which is what I wrote this winter in his prospect writeup. At that time, he was no. 18. Now no. 24 and falling.)

    #189907
    forsch31
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    I don’t have the numbers to back things up but I keep wondering why the Cardinals would move Winn off of SS. From the things I have read, Winn is supposed to have better range and a better arm at SS than Edman. Winn is supposed to also have a good glove. It would seem to make more sense to convert Edman to CF and keep Winn at SS.

    #189910
    GameCard
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    Do not move Edman…move Winn or trade him.

    #189912
    CardsFanInChiTown
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    To clear things up…. Winn is not being moved off SS anytime soon.

    #189915
    forsch31
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    GameCard, Winn might be the next Ozzie Smith and you want to move him to CF or trade him? It is those types of decisions that would doom the Cardinals to mediocrity.

    #189918
    CardsFanInChiTown
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    I’m with Forsch all the way on this one. Carlson isn’t awful in center, and his batting numbers definitely look better there. If anything, Bader to the Padres for pitching, let Carlson play there for now, then in 2024 when Winn can take over at SS, figure something out.

    #189922
    bccran
    Participant

    Edman is a starting ML shortstop. Covering the position well. If Winn beats him out for the position, so be it. But why uproot a proven major leaguer who’s playing well at his natural position when slotting Winn for CF doesn’t disrupt that.
    Also, Winn may very well be an upgrade over our present center fielder.

    #189924
    forsch31
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    Bc, you do it because Winn would be the better fielder at SS. Better arm and better range. Edman graded as a 50 fielder and Winn graded as a 60 fielder.

    #189925
    Cards667
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    Tyler Green had really good range too. Let things play out. It’s ok to look at potential, but you’re talking about a 20 year old AA player who’s at least a year if not 2 away and the big league team has a 27 year old SS doing just fine in Thomas Hyunsu Edman.

    #189926
    bccran
    Participant

    If Winn has tremendous speed and a bazooka for an arm, wouldn’t that play well in CF? If you question Edman’s arm (which is adequate) at SS, why would you want him in CF instead of Winn?

    #189927
    forsch31
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    I’m not saying anything about whether or not he needs to earn it. My only point of contention is that people want to move a better defender to another position just because they like the player currently in the position. Edman has speed. If Winn can learn CF, so can Edman.

    #189928
    bccran
    Participant

    But people question his arm on the infield, Forsch. How about his arm in CF?

    #189929
    forsch31
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    Edman’s arm plays better in CF. An OF is able to set his feet to throw. A shortstop in the hole doesn’t have that luxury.

    #189931
    bccran
    Participant

    I put Winn in CF and you don’t, Forsch. No problem. Agreeing to disagree isn’t a bad thing. Again, if Winn can beat out Edman for the SS position, so be it.

    #189935
    LACardFan
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    Ideally, neither of them would be in the outfield. Defensively, you probably want Winn at SS and Edman at 2B. But that forces Gorman to move again.

    Where would Gorman go? He could move to LF, could become DH, or after 2024 he could take over 1B. Remember, Goldschmidt’s contract is up after the 2024 season, at which time he will be 36. If Gorman is put at DH, then the Cardinals are probably forced to trade Yepez or use him as a PH.

    Winn may get a cup of coffee next year, but probably won’t be on the MLB team as a regular until 2024.

    #189937
    forsch31
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    IF Goldschmidt is still hitting really well in 2024, I have no problem with the Cardinals re-signing him for a year or 2 after that. He is such a good defender that he makes the other infielders look better by saving them throwing errors. That’s where some of DeJong’s defensive improvement came from.

    #189939
    bccran
    Participant

    If Goldy keeps it up, would love to see him extended. That would probably put Walker in LF.

    #189950
    gscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Very true gentlemen. Some assume that Goldy’s final year in St. Louis will be 2024. I wouldn’t assume that at all.

    #189975
    LACardFan
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    Agreed, if Goldy is hitting well he should be extended. But right now, all we know is his contract expires in 2024 and he will be 36.

    If he is extended, then Gorman can move to DH or LF.

    #189984
    bccran
    Participant

    Gotta be strong up the middle. Gorman is handling 2B fine. If Bader’s not in CF, then someone outstanding defensively needs to be there.

    #190021
    forsch31
    Participant

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    For me, there are 3 levels of tradeable players.

    Keep (core build around): Goldschmidt, Arenado, Herrera, Walker, Winn

    It takes a ton to move: Gorman, Hudson, Liberatore, Helsley, Edman, Carlson, Burleson, Graceffo

    Players to not just give up: Donovan, Hicks, Yepez, O’Neill, Bader

    The remainder are just trade chips. Obviously, Wainwright and Molina will be kept. I am sure I have forgotten someone.

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