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I am an Arenado fan, but similar to the “win-win” in trading Contreras that could be the case with Arenado as well.
Our trend towards being younger and cheaper would suit our roster well if both Arenado and Contreras are dealt. I am fine with both coming back as well, but it does present a bit of a “square peg in a round hole” situation for a couple of your younger guys, Gorman and Herrera.
Saggese would have to win the second base job with a lights out Spring to start there. Donovan is the default candidate at the moment.
I enjoyed Blake’s article. The elephant in the room is that the problems of finding a position for Gorman and Walker will go away on their own if they can’t hit, which seems rather likely.
Arenado became disgruntled when COL didn’t add players around him. He’s first to get traded, for me.
Our trend towards being younger and cheaper would suit our roster well if both Arenado and Contreras are dealt. I am fine with both coming back as well, but it does present a bit of a “square peg in a round hole” situation for a couple of your younger guys, Gorman and Herrera.
I think it’s imperative that we trade both of these guys. I think the return on Arenado is much greater than what most people here think. Yes we will have to send some $. But we got money when we took the contract. It’s an overall negative if he’s here in 2025.
From a PR and marketing standpoint, it’s probably important to BDW that the Cardinals are competitive next season. That means keeping Arenado, Contreras, Gray, and Helsley.
As far as Walker, there’s no way you trade him. He’s only 22 and a big part of the Cardinals future. MOTO bat for years to come.
From a PR and marketing standpoint, it’s probably important to BDW that the Cardinals are competitive next season.
That doesn’t seem compatible with a rebuild. I don’t think they are going to get their cake and eat it too by rebuilding and remaining competitive at the same time, depending on how you define competitive and depending on how you define rebuild.
I hope that the Cardinals have finally learned that trying to play both sides of the street will not work. That formula is clearly not working. Fans already know that and any PR and marketing that focuses on the same roster minus a few fading older players is going to elicit a big yawn.
Then again, as I have already noted, the same PBO is still in charge and I can’t see him taking 100 losses, for example, in his final season, just to set up 2026 and beyond.
the same roster minus a few fading older players
Everyone else around here is predicting exactly that.
Then again, as I have already noted, the same PBO is still in charge and I can’t see him taking 100 losses, for example, in his final season, just to set up 2026 and beyond.
I don’t know Brian. The only way I see the team playing even 500 ball is to spend on the current roster, and we know they aren’t doing that. Mo can probably recover much of his legacy if he is perceived as being part of the solution, which is the investment in the PD system and proper execution of the rebuild. When the organization starts to rise out of the ashes and continue a winning tradition, Mo will be seen as part of that. If he pushes back against it and cost them an extra year or two, he won’t be able to show his face.
Any pushing back would be behind the scenes and not in our view. We will be left to interpret their intent based on their actions, not their PR and marketing stance.
Letting Goldy, Lynn, and Gibson go, and somehow trading Mikolas (eating some of his salary) is a good way to lower team payroll, even with the 6 arbitration raises. You then stay competitive and in the hunt. Somehow, someway they need to get Walker and Gorman playing up to their high ceilings.
KeepComingBack
I think it’s imperative that we trade both of these guys. I think the return on Arenado is much greater than what most people here think. Yes we will have to send some $. But we got money when we took the contract. It’s an overall negative if he’s here in 2025.
I keep coming back to this. Arenado and Contreras (and Gray) have underwater contracts. To trade them, you’d have to eat salary and get nothing back. Likewise, you aren’t going to be able to spend/invest $10-20M per player back into the organization. It’s far more money than ‘development’ would cost. Just staying put as the roster is right now, our payroll will be around $40M less than 2024 was.
Finally, they aren’t going to spend the saved money later either. They never have. It’s always on a year-to-year basis.
As bikemike alluded to there are other benefits to moving Arenado and Contreras than just payroll savings and that is actually freeing up spots for the younger guys to play everyday, which is what the Cardinals claim they want to do. Let Gorman play everyday at 3B in 2025. If he strikes out 400 times then we have our answer and can adjust accordingly for 2026. Let Herrera catch eveyday in 2025. If he throws out 1% of runners then we know and can adjust accordingly for 2026. Keeping Arenado and Contreras around will not make us dramtically more competitive in my opinion and they are not going to be members of the next great Cardinal team whenever that is. Better to cut bait now and clean house.
And by the way I think Contreras could bring a couple of decent prospects back. His contract is not that far underwater.
Contreras’ contract isn’t even underwater unless you believe he’s going to massively fall off the next three years. His production has been pretty consistent until now. Of the bigger names, he’s the one I’d most prefer to keep, but if he goes I think we won’t have a giant drop off at catcher. We will have a bigger drop at 1B/DH, though.
gscottar
Keeping Arenado and Contreras around will not make us dramtically more competitive in my opinion and they are not going to be members of the next great Cardinal team whenever that is. Better to cut bait now and clean house.Why are you all planning on a 4 year rebuid? They were 2 of our best players last year and both have some upside left and are under contract for 2027.
Contreras is underwater and was the day he signed the contract. It’s not a lot though.
Why are you all planning on a 4 year rebuid? They were 2 of our best players last year and both have some upside left and are under contract for 2027.
I don’t know exactly how long the rebuild will take but I believe having expensive players on the downside of their careers who are potentially blocking younger players with a future here makes little sense for an organizaton who has already stated that “fielding their most competitive team” is not their top objective for 2025.
There has been some questions around the Cardinals approach this coming season. What exactly did Mo mean when he said we weren’t going to try to put the best possible team together?
I think every team approaches an offseason with one of these 4 approaches:
A) Augment the current team with free agents and creative trades to try to win a championship.
The Cardinals clearly are not going to do this based on Mo’s comments. They aren’t going to spend money to fix perceived problems – at least not much money.
B) Fill a few minor gaps through free agency or make a small trade or two and otherwise just run the group back out again. This is the maybe we have something, but we’re not sure approach.
This may be the Cardinals approach. We don’t know. The Cardinals have kind of been caught somewhere between this and the first approach for a number of years where they are trying to win, but probably not trying enough.
C) Sell off the higher-priced players where you can to fill the roster with young players. Maybe make a couple other small trades or very minor free agent acquisitions.
This is also very possibly the approach. My guess is the Cardinals are shooting to be somewhere between B & C with this offseason. I don’t think all of Gray, Contreras, Arenado, or Mikolas will be gone. But I expect they will try to shop 1 or 2 of them to see what they can get.
D) Sell off any player of value that is anywhere close to arbitration or that costs money and see what you have with what’s remaining. The main intent here is to be good in 3-5 years.
This is not what the Cardinals have said they will do. They wanted to be clear this was not a rebuild. In this scenario, the 4 high priced guys would be gone plus Fedde, Nootbaar, Donovan, and Helsley with the goal being to make the team good by 2027.
Good synopsis jnevel. I agree that it is probably a combo of B and C. Trade a high priced veteran or two and sign a cheapish FA or two that they could flip at the deadline but primarily go with the younger guys.
It won’t be the scorched earth option D.
The #STLCards have made changes to their coaching staff, per sources.
Jon Jay will join the major-league staff after two years with the Marlins. Willie McGee has chosen to step down, but will remain in the organization as a special advisor.
More here: https://t.co/19cBjxabwQ
— Katie Woo (@katiejwoo) October 21, 2024
Any pushing back would be behind the scenes and not in our view. We will be left to interpret their intent based on their actions, not their PR and marketing stance.
Isn’t that the way they always operate? They are the opposite of transparent. You are right. We will know who’s pushing the moves. We don’t have much longer before we can stop all the speculation.
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