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I made one comment in a chat earlier today but I think this one deserves its own thread. About 8 years ago, I started getting nervous about pitching depth at the minor league level. It seemed like every ounce of energy was focused on finding or creating middle of the order bats. Here we are in 2025 and folks, I’m starting to get worried again. But this time it is about position players. And I’m talking mostly the hitting side of the game because we have plenty of solid defenders out there. But we need solid defenders who can also hit. And right now the cupboard is a bit bare. Let’s categorize what we have (simply because I like to do that when I think about topics like this).
Position Players Who We Reasonably Expect to be Above Average in MLB:
JJ Wetherholt
That’s it for that category. I’m glad we at least have one. And really, 1 here is ok.
Position Players Who We Reasonably Expect to be at Least Average for a few Years in MLB and Could Be Better than that:
Jimmy Crooks
Leonardo BernalThat’s it for me. Just 2 and they both play the same position. That’s not good. This is the depth issue I’m referring to.
Position Players Who Probably Make it to MLB But Are Unlikely To Be Better than Average:
Josh Baez
Blaze Jordan
Chase DavisAgain, this is really thin. Baez is kind of between this category and the one above it.
Position Players With a Shot at Being Average MLB Players but Odds Are They Never Are More Than a Bench Player:
Matt Koperniak
Deniel Ortiz
Jesus Baez
Nathan Church
Won Bin Cho
Zach Levenson
Cesar Prieto
Jeremy RivasAgain, not a ton of depth here either.
I intentionally didn’t rank Raniel Rodriguez, Yairo Padilla, anyone in the DSL, or anyone who just got drafted because they are too far away and I haven’t watched enough of them. Maybe there is hope there. But the draft seemed to be mostly focused on pitching and the early play of the new position players has been mostly subpar.
Did I miss anyone? Are you a lot more confident on any of the guys I mentioned (I’m guessing some will be on Deniel Ortiz but I’m not there yet).
This is a good synopsis of the state of the position player depth in the system. I do think that Peoria is a black hole that’s making things look worse than it should (I’m working on collecting data to make that point anyway) but it’s still kind of bleak. I’m not certain of Crooks’ long term ability with the bat but I think he’s going to play because his glove is good. I’d probably include Rainiel in your 3rd bucket. His bat looks good (in a low average kind of way) but he may be limited defensively sort of like our last DSL wunderkind, Malcom Nunez. I think there is a good shot that he makes it eventually, but probably not an overwhelming one. Of the draft guys, it would seem that Mitchell and Gurevitch would have some small shot, based on previous norms. Maybe they can pull a rabbit out of a hat with a low rounder.
Luckily there is still some young talent on hand at the MLB level, but there really will have to be a push to collect more MLB talent in the lineup or all the pitching in the world won’t help keep St Louis competitive.
It seems like we are heavy in left handed bats that can play multiple positions. And catching.
Amen C27. I have followed Cardinal baseball very closely on a daily basis since the late 1970’s and I don’t recall ever seeing the organization so LH centric from top to bottom as we are now, especially in the OF. It is beyond bizarre. I am almost willing to start a Go Fund Me page to collect money to help the organization find more RH hitters.
There is no reason to think the sum total of talent in the Cardinals’ minor league system is any greater at this point than at any other point in the last ten years. That being the case, the real issue is not what we have but whether or not more will come of it than has been the case in those last ten years. That will depend upon whether the new player development system supposedly now taking shape can be more effective than it has been. I don’t think we can predict if it will or won’t since we know next to nothing about it. That leaves us with no choice but to wait and see.
The position player depth still looks really bad too me. Wetherholt has All Star upside and is low risk, but after him, there are only a few guys with starting position player potential. There is Bernal and Crooks are are both low to mid risk, but I think both are just average starter upside. I’ve got Josh Baez as slightly above average potential (55), but still with high risk. Beyond him, Rainiel and Padilla I have at 60 upside, but extreme risk. Jesus Baez, Mitchell I have as 55 upside, but also extreme risk.
Gurevitch / Ortiz are guys I have a medium risk with starter upside, but most likely platoon guys. I’ve not as high on Blaze Jordan and see him most likely at best a platoon bat. Chase Davis I am completely out on. I wouldn’t be surprised if he never takes an MLB at bat for the Cardinals. Then there are a lot of guys that maybe look like bench guys.
I think the org would be lucky to get 1 All Star, 1 above average starter, and 1 average starter out of the current position prospects. Prospects are definitely risky, but it is still worth shooting for some upside on guys like Rainel, Padilla to see if they can be All Stars as this team has really struggled to develop guys that are deserving of an All Star.
When it comes to the Cardinals theses days if it weren’t for bad news there’d be no news at all.
The ML roster is a complete mess in every category. Outside of Winn no young player at this level looks ‘special’
When everyone is salivating over McGreevy it tells you the sorry state of the pitching.
The minors are mostly bereft of potential high level talent – so, the reinforcements aren’t coming.
Bloom has his hands full to try to fix this mess.
I guess rebuilding the farm system is the surest way to build a solid ML roster AND have the ammunition to trade for a couple of players you need.
Add on a couple of FA signings that meet expectations and boom – sustainable WS contender year in and year out.
The above can happen but it’ll take a few years to build and balance the organization from top to bottom – the problem with that is – the fan base is already beyond fed up and out of patience as evidenced by the declining ticket sales and attendance
Bill let this thing fester far too long and now – here we are.
Quinn Matthews, Liam Doyle, Tekoah Roby,Tink Hence, Ixan Henderson, Cooper Hjerpe, Shen Wei Lin, Bryson Mautz and Sem Robberse are the guys that might be ready as early as 2026. Doyle and Matthews look to have a shot at decent careers. We are certainly going to need more than that.
Bill let this thing fester far too long and now – here we are.
BW has previously shot down my theory that Mo had BDW thoroughly duped with the magic beans and secret sauce, insisting he is a sophisticated baseball owner/executive who had his eyes wide open and hands on the wheel the whole time. That says something about BDW that can’t be mentioned on a family friendly message board. It is also a reason to wonder just how fixed things are likely be going forward. A good reason.
- SCHILDT vs. MO
Hindsight being 20-20 we can now clearly see who’s ‘philosophy’ was the problem.
Mo is and was 100% of the problem and he has spent most of the last 8-10 years wrecking a once proud organization.
I wasn’t a big fan of Schildt when he was hired and wasn’t sad to see him go – I was fooled along with a lot of others.
Who is to say they both weren’t a problem?
Regardless, it surely had a stifling effect amongst the baseball people in the organization, shutting down any sort of input other than ‘great idea Mo’.
Mo traded for Ozuna December of 2017. Imagine Schildt with Gallen and Alcantara instead, the next 4 seasons.
I view Shildt as the best manager we have had since TLR and letting him go was just plain dumb. I know that Matheny racked up a lot of W’s but he also inherited a team that had just been in the WS. Very few first time managers inherit that situation even without Pujols. I think Shildt could manage circles around Matheny. He currently has the Padres in a dog fight with the Dodgers while Matheny is out of baseball. Of all of the Mo blunders, and there have been many, pushing Shildt out the door for apparently no good reason other than ego was one of the biggest.
Mike and Mo disagreed about the roster construction, right? What would Schildt have been asking for?
Hint: We were 29th as SP’rs Schildt’s final season. Bill wasn’t buying any better than Matz backloaded and that was such a good decision he had to go buy 3 starters, eventually. But, Schildt had to go, for being right?I’ve decided that Mo is a condescending, arrogant, Ivy League wanna be ass.
He gets along real well with Silver Spoon Jr as they snicker and chuckle at rubes who buy tickets to Cards games as they look down their noses at the unwashed masses from the luxury suites.
I don’t know Mo- But if Bill wasn’t going to fire him, at the very least he should have been removed as the “face” of the franchise. It was a face no one wanted to see or hear anymore. He just seemed to get more and more unlikeable as he tried harder and harder to defend his failures. And I hate to be picky, but his style of dress was one i think very few fans could relate to. How many of you wear pink shirts, scarfs, or bowties?
Mo would do best to just stay out of sight until its over and then just fade away. And it seems like BD3 should stay away from microphones. My take is he thinks his company should be able to create the product that works for it and the customers should line up to buy it.
There is a saying for wealthy children of wealthy children – the third generation.
With the third comes the turd.
I’ve found it to be true more often than not as the poor kids lead a sheltered, insulated life of luxury wherein they are never allowed to fail and never have to solve their own problems.
Winning and losing both teach equally important lessons.
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