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Last year, the pitching we started out with was not good enough to get us into post-season. At the trade deadline, August 2, we were 2 games out of the Division lead and 3 or so behind San Diego and Atlanta, who had the WC slots at that time. The pitching Mo acquired mid season got us back in it. What Forsch said is correct, but the pitching now isn’t any worse than it was this time last year. It is about equivalent, IMO. In other words, it is not good enough.
How about the bullpen? Will it be a strength? Lots to choose from.
Helsley
Gallegos
Hicks
Hudson
Pallante
Woodford
Stratton
Thompson
Cabrera
Romero
Naughton
Thomas
Naile
Liberatore
VerHagen
Rodriguez
Pacheco
Whitley
Walsh
Zuniga
LoutosStarters will certainly be relying heavily on the bullpen: much the same as last year, maybe more.
Good thing the pen looks very strong. If we had to line up 8 guys today for the pen my choice would be the following:
1-Helsley
2-Gallegos
3-Pallante
4-Woodford
5-Hicks
6-Thompson
7-Hudson
8-Cabera
If Cabby falters as he did last year, then Romero, Naughton.Looks good 552.
But as it has been documented before, pitching can only take the team so far; we have to be able to hit the ball and/or manufacture some runs. Last playoffs we fell flat and did not hit. We really haven’t picked up any additional bats this off season.. the catching position can hold its own, but not much of an upgrade offensively. Specifically, the outfield has fallen flat, we need better than this:
Carlson – .236
O’Neil – .228
Nootbar – .228
Burlson – .188
Our best outfielder Bader, .256, traded. This hurt more than most think.Thanks for linking to the article CardsFan552. I like Bernie, but he’s old fashioned. Pine tar is out, circuits on silicon wafers are in. The algo does not factor in end results on the field or common sense. Like we’ve heard often enough from the metrics crowd, wins doesn’t matter. I guess ERA+ doesn’t either, at least not if your name is Woodford.
For sure, Blingboy.
The cards need to let him go… I am sure another team or several will give him the chance he deserves.Bling & 552, I am totally in agreement with you guys. The Woodford saga dates back to 2021, I dug up these old Bernie Mac articles… they seem to repeat! and not in a good way. FO and Mgmt need to either Sh…
or get off the pot with him.
————————————————————–July 20, 2021
https://www.scoopswithdannymac.com/bernies-redbird-review-a-very-special-happy-talk-edition/None of us have any idea who is against using Woodford more/differently. I see three potentials. 1) the manager. 2) the pitching coaches. 3) the front office/analytics.
The only change from last year to this is #2, and even then, Blake is not new, so he has an impression of Jake already. If it is more positive than Maddux, it could matter. If not, one should probably expect more of the same in 2023.
P.S. Teams do not trade valuable assets to give them a better chance elsewhere. They do it because they see a better return. As has been discussed a number of times already, if the Cards are not sold on him, they would probably accept a decent offer from another team for him… if such an offer would exist.
Good take on Woodford Brian. If it turns out to be the same this year as the previous 2 years, then for his sake I hope he goes to a team that gives him a shot. His stuff certainly plays. Maybe old school pitching but results are results. I think….
The fact is that of the 30 MLB organizations, the one that is highest in Woodford is very likely the St Louis Cardinals. Unfortunately, that’s not enough for fans. Hopefully Woodford pitches and pitches well this year.
He was a 1st round pick in 2015, so the Cardinals invested significant money in him ($1.8 million bonus/$214,600 over slot). He pitched well enough at AAA to be the starter for the PCL in the mid-season AAA All Star game. In 2022, he had a 3.14 ERA at Memphis in 11 games, and then a 2.23 ERA with the Cardinals in 27 games. Something doesn’t make sense. Guess it’s because he’s an old fashion type “carve ’em up” pitcher, rather than a flame thrower.
I’m guessing it was the 21-27 record and mid 4s ERA in the upper minors. Hopefully he will pitch better than that long term in the majors, for his sake and the Cardinals’. The manager has done a fabulous job at keeping him in situations where he’s had the best chance to succeed. I’m curious if they’ll give him a bigger role, as his large and lively fan base has been clamoring for. I suspect not, which is not to say he’s not a useful depth piece. He simply is unlikely to thrive in the starting role, much like the backup QB often doesn’t improve the offense in replacement of the starter.
I really think if he is given a honest chance at starting, Woodford makes the most of it and would keep the job. He needs a staff that supports him by giving him opportunities, which he clearly does not have now.
Also, I think we all know minor league stats don’t really mean squat… its the minors. except maybe aaa.
From BCCran above:
“He pitched well enough at AAA to be the starter for the PCL in the mid-season AAA All Star game. In 2022, he had a 3.14 ERA at Memphis in 11 games, and then a 2.23 ERA with the Cardinals in 27 games. Something doesn’t make sense. Guess it’s because he’s an old fashion type “carve ’em up” pitcher, rather than a flame thrower.”Perhaps you think Woodford has a supernatural ability to prevent home runs on fly balls. I don’t. As I’ve previously said, if you normalize his HR/FB rates (which is at about 1% against an MLB average of 12-14% since September of 2021), he’s a 4-4.50 ERA pitcher at best. For what it’s worth, he was not particularly adept at keeping the ball in the park in the minors…and contrary to public opinion, that certainly does matter.
This is post 2041 on this forum directly writing Woodford in it. That’s almost as many as Mikolas, who’s a proven big league starter. I’ll still go back to trusting the Cardinals more than people who look at baseball card stats and make grand conclusions. Hopefully Woodford will prove me wrong in a meaningful role, and if so I’ll be here to admit as much.
Simply on the merits of last season’s 4-0 W/L record to go along with a nice looking 2.23 ERA in a shade over 48 IP’ed in which he allowed only 1 HR, I certainly expect to see Jake Woodford take on a larger workload in ’23. There’s no doubt he’ll get the baseball next season almost as frequently as he gets mentioned on TCN and other forums I’ve seen. Even prior to his nice work in ’22, this guy gets talked about almost as much as a pretty woman who happens to saunter aboard a troop train…Haha!
I’m not a believer in luck, good or bad, for any extended period of time. A low babip against for the year means batters couldn’t square it up. A low HR/FB rate means the same.
Bling…I’m with you regarding the luck nonsense. There’s no good or bad luck. It’s those dang baseball gypsies that sometimes determine what happens. The best approach is to not do anything to make ’em mad…Haha!
If the average pitcher isn’t allowed to go through the lineup a third time, isn’t a bullpen discussion almost as important as a rotation discussion?
The Cardinals have misused Woodford, anybody with any baseball knowledge can see that. Bottom line is he gets guys out, that is the name of the game far as pitching goes. I don’t care about batters miss rates against his pitches. When you play half your games in Busch stadium, you should be looking for more guys like Woodford. Stats and pitchers you might want for one stadium don’t always match up with another. Maybe he isn’t a long term starter but he’s very effective in a reliever role and can be a good spot starter. Yea the Cardinals don’t trade guys to give them opportunities other places but they should or maybe just release him. I guarantee if they did, he will be on some other team pitching cause I see plenty of worse pitchers getting opportunity after opportunity in other places as well in st. Louis.
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