Pitching Injuries

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  • #189582
    bccran
    Participant

    Are there any theories on why there are so many pitching injuries today? I don’t recall guys like Gibson, Carlton, Seaver, Drysdale,
    Jenkins, Ford, Maddux, Spahn, Palmer, Marichal, etc. going down that much.

    #189583
    so_cal_cards_fan
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    Free

    Better imaging and diagnostics. Before, they just had sore arm, tired arm, dead arm, and arm fell off.

    #189584
    bccran
    Participant

    Well, So_Cal, their careers seemed to last pretty long, and they were fairly effective up until the time they retired. And they pitched a lot more innings on a game average than todays pitchers.

    #189585
    so_cal_cards_fan
    Participant

    Free

    Very true. But anecdotally, they pitched hurt more, with a weaker union, no social media, very little say. Used and discarded. Nowadays they retire when their fastball drops below 87. Before, they quit when the agony was too great.

    #189586
    so_cal_cards_fan
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    Article on injury history

    Food for thought. Just anecdotes.

    #189588
    CardsFanInChiTown
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    The stress, work load, wear and tear, etc while they are growing up can’t help. Kids now are playing and practicing so much, and throwing as hard as they can while they are still developing physically, can not be a good recipe for long lasting health.

    #189589
    kscardfan
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    My theory is use it or lose it. The Pitchers back in the golden days of Pitching threw a lot of innings. A lot during their starts, and a lot during the season. Some like Carlton did their own little workouts. As I recall he worked his arm in a 5 gallon bucket of rice. He also was into martial arts. A lot of them worked jobs in the offseason and just shut their arm down during that time. Lifting weights wasn’t as prevalent back then. I think excessive weight lifting is tough on flexibilty. Tightens muscles rather than loosen. Then again just my theories. What do you do to rehab a shoulder after surgery? Stretch and workout within days of surgery. The key being working the muscles. Maybe torn tendons do better without surgery. It was thought of as a sore arm back then. You just went on throwing.

    #189682
    dblack
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Pitchers are stronger, more powerful, throw harder, and train more fearlessly during the off season. The shear force, stress, and torque that a pitcher places on their arm and shoulder during the throwing motion seems to be more than the body can withstand. But I do believe that the technology with more research, knowledge, training protocols, and upgraded throwing programs have prevented more injuries. Pitching takes its toll for sure.

    #189687
    Bob Reed
    Participant

    Free

    Speaking of pitcher injuries, Jordan Hicks has been raked over the coals in his four miserable AAA rehab appearances (5 IP, 7 hits and 4 walks, 7 earned runs for a 12.60 ERA, and fanned just 5 of 25 batters) but apparently he’s coming back to the majors anyway.

    We all love velocity. But simpletons love velocity even when it doesn’t get people out. Hey, maybe the Cards can find Maikel Cleto and bring him back, too.

    #189718
    Lee
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Hicks should stay down in AAA and get more work in. He is certainly not ready to come back to MLB, it will surely cost the team some wins.

    #189723
    1982 willie
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Back in the day starting pitchers in particular pitched not just threw. By that I mean they went out there with the goal of pitching nine innings everytime. Also the fastball was used a lot more but they didn’t try to throw it as hard as they could. They picked their spots to really bare down on hitters not trying to strike out every hitter. Today’s pitchers put so much stress into every pitch. Also if a pitcher has any possible injury or pain and they are instantly put on the disabled list now. I also believe that teams use the disabled list for roster maneuverability, making things up as you will or at least exaggerating injuries.

    #189726
    bccran
    Participant

    It’s the difference between throwing and pitching. Look at the difference between Waino and Hudson.

    #189729
    ZTR
    Participant

    Free

    Greg Maddux comes immediately to mind…

    #189732
    bccran
    Participant

    Bob Forsch is another.

    #189737
    Cardinal in France
    Participant

    Free

    It’s a matter of too much velocity. There is far too much emphasis these days on what the gun says – just listen to the oohing and aahing of the blabbermouths in the booth for a start – and as a result many of these guys (not all thank goodness) are shredding their own arms trying to achieve higher and higher velocity. Success for many means getting close to three digits. I also wonder if trying to throw too many different pitches plays a role rather than mastering two or three and tossing in the odd surprise.

    Whatever happened to that quadragenaire named Waino-something? He hasn’t thrown a mid-90s pitch since the Bush administration and he’s still mowing ’em down in St. Louis.

    And what’s happened to the Hoyt Wilhelms of this world? Or the Phil Niekros. A lost art?

    #189742
    14NyquisT
    Participant

    This is what the IL looks like today.

    PITCHERS
    Cabrera ? little to read about
    Flaherty TBD
    Hicks early July
    Matz July
    McFarland ?
    VerHagen TBD
    Reyes 6o day… maybe’23
    PLAYERS
    Molina happy in PR
    Bader TBD… could be a long time…. bum wheel
    Dickerson late July
    O’Neill Rehab next week

    Not all these guys will be back at once… but will dibble back. That’s a lot of roster moves to make. Any ideas how this all plays out? The who-s the when-s and the why-s.

    Milb-ers on the 40 man roster
    Liberatore next rotation spot?
    Pacheco
    Rondon
    Walsh
    Whitley first to go… lousy thus far.
    DeJong

    #189747
    bccran
    Participant

    It’s not just the Cardinals. Injuries are running rampant all around MLB.

    #189781
    kscardfan
    Participant

    Free

    With Hicks back tomorrow who goes down? Can Wittgren be released please.

    #189782
    1982 willie
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Well Hicks is back with the team. Just like flaherty they are using the big team to get him back in shape, only had a couple of appearances in minors. I don’t understand the move but they are being consistent but being consistently wrong is not a good thing.

    #189791
    858booyah
    Participant

    Free

    Hicks has better common sense and the drop out from the 2020 season hanging over him unless some stupid idiot pitcher who opted to return early.

    #189802
    bccran
    Participant

    Pitchers are paid a whole lot more money nowadays. Maybe teams are protecting their investments by being a lot more cautionary. Seems like guys go on the injured list for small things. Just a thought.

    #189899
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Again, if a player is healthy, he cannot be forced to have a minor league rehab stint or stay longer than he feels it is necessary. It is totally voluntary.

    #189942
    bccran
    Participant

    It may be voluntary, but not to follow what the club wants can be problematic.

    #189953
    gscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    The team decides when the player is activated on the 26 man roster though, whether he goes on a rehab assignment or not.

    #190029
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    There should be no judgement calls. Medical personnel clear a player. Then the team has to activate him or if he agrees, go on a rehab assignment. The team cannot just leave a healthy player in limbo or face a grievance.

    Either the player is healthy or not.

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