Pitching Depth

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This topic contains 9 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by Avatar forsch31 3 months, 2 weeks ago.

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  • #92527
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    SoonerinNC
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    How many real pitching prospects do we have below AAA Memphis in our system. Oviedo?, Fernandez? Seijas?

    Brian did you seen anyone other than Roberts in your Extended Spring Training visit that you would see as a bona fine major league prospects. Of course the jury has to be out on Gingery.

    #92528
    Brian Walton
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    Among starters, I like Angel Rondon and Edgar Gonzalez more than Seijas at this point, as my May top 50 confirms.

    Among relievers, Seth Elledge and Connor Jones (to a lesser extent) are behind Fernandez. Jesus Cruz has shown flashes, but has also been roughed up at times.

    In my time in EST, only one fastball touched 93 and I had the gun on every pitcher I saw. Of course, if a guy has a wipeout slider like Roberts, fastball velo is less important, but the vast majority of EST guys are still finding their way. Certainly no sure things yet.

    #92535
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    gscottar
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    If you define “real pitching prospect” as someone with high velocity, nasty stuff, and with a high pedigree then I agree it is slim pickings below Memphis.

    However there are some blue collar types who continue to produce.

    Shew (hasn’t been in Memphis long)
    Fagalde
    DellaValle
    Parsons

    Also, Junior Fernandez is finally having a good year.

    I am by no means a talent scout but I like evaluating on performance instead of potential and pedigree.

    #92537
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    Cardinals27
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    And much like any pitcher we draft next week, they won’t help much in 2019, especially those with a heavy collegiate work load.

    #92655
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    SoonerinNC
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    I like performance as well but today the successful starters seem to be 92-96 on their fastballs and relievers 95-100. Some exceptions, but how many are top line performers.

    We just released O’Reilly and Pearce who had great low minor years with the great location and offspeed stuff.

    I remember a guy, Sal Campisi who blew even AAA hitters with great location and offspeed stuff. When he arrived at the majors the hitters ignored his fastball and torched his great offspeed stuff.

    Would love to see a list of major league pitchers ranked on average fastball velocity. That could give us insight on how important velocity is. But one thing is certain; velocity without command, movement and an effective offspeed offering also doesn’t get it done.

    Many would claim that Tommy John did not have a great fastball. But he did before his injury. It seems that most of the effective offspeed guys have been those who had a good fastball but had to adjust after an injury. Wainwright somewhat of an exception.

    As an aside, my wife was a hair dresser in Terre Haue, Indiana. One of her customers was Tommy John’s mother. Another was the mother of Evan Baye and the wife of former Governor Birch Baye.

    #92664
    Brian Walton
    Brian Walton
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    To add to the O’Reilly and Pearce examples is Zach Petrick. He was the Pitcher of the Year for the entire system in 2013 at Springfield after dominating across three levels. Yet, he never made it to the majors and he wasn’t derailed by injury. He eventually went to Japan for a couple of years and that was it.

    #92667
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    Cardinals27
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    PJ Walters is another.

    #92669
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    gscottar
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    We probably don’t have any number one or number two starters left in the lower minors but we have several Lance Lynn types who can help fill out a rotation.

    Also, it isn’t like our current staff is old and about to leave. Other than Waino and Wacha everyone else is going to be here for the foreseeable future.

    Mikolas is 30 and signed for four more years after this one.
    CMart is 27 and under control for four more years after this one.
    Flaherty is 23.
    Hudson is 24.
    Hicks is 22.
    Reyes is 24.
    Cabrera is 22.
    Helsley is 24.
    Ponce is 27.
    Gomber is 25.
    Woodford is 22.

    I think we have time to draft and develop more pitching.

    #92672
    Brian Walton
    Brian Walton
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    gscottar said:

    I think we have time to draft and develop more pitching.

    That is a different matter than the lack of minors depth currently.

    I would also submit that some of the pitchers you mention aren’t going to have staying power. They say, “You can never have enough pitching” for a reason. Even with that impressive pipeline, the Cards went out and signed both Mikolas last winter and Miller this past winter as free agents. Bullpen depth questions led to the Cecil and Gregerson signings. Some Cardinals fans want them to sign Kimbrel and or Keuchel tomorrow.

    The summary of my long-winded contention is that a steady minor league pitching pipeline is always going to be needed.

    #92681
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    forsch31
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    Sooner, try this link to Fangraphs. You can adjust the parameters to include pitchers who have thrown less innings and also make it over a several year period. There is a lot of flexibility to make the results close to what you want for velocity.

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