- This topic has 105 replies, 20 voices, and was last updated 2 years, 7 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Just saw the news.
I assume the main 9 for the Cards will be Noot, Edman, Walker, Arenados, Winn, Gorman, Goldy, Contreras, Donovan, and the main 3 backups will be Carlson, Herrera, and Burleson.
Palacios was in competition for the 4th backup spot. I’d guess that will go to whichever is most versatile of Fermin, Kennedy, and Young, and will be someone who does not see much playing time, but could fill in when everyone else is used.
Curious about thoughts on Kittredge. Seems like it will help the pen.
Gags – I’ve said this in a few posts, but I still strongly believe that the last bench spot should go to Siani. He provides A+ speed for a pinch running slot when we need it, excellent outfield defense as a late game replacement, and we never have to worry about feeding him at bats because he’s a terrible hitter and likely isn’t going to get a lot better in that department anyway. This would allow all sorts of double switches and gives the team an actual boost from the last spot on the roster. Palacios would have just rotted away there.
Kittredge is a former all star with a long track record of being good but he’s now in his 30’s and coming off of Tommy John surgery. He pitched some at the end of last season including an inning in the playoffs and was mostly successful. This move definitely raises both the floor and ceiling of the bullpen assuming he stays mostly healthy. I like the addition. I’m not sure I love giving up years of control on Palacios. But I also don’t think he would have fit in the 2024 picture so I’m mostly ok with this trade.
Also note Kittredge costs an estimated 2.3 million and is in his last year of arbitration. He’ll be 34 when the season starts.
Of course Palacios probably turns into a stud outfielder for the Rays and Kittredge probably ends up the equivalent of VerHagan because that’s what trading with the Rays gets you.
If healthy Kittredge is pretty good, the positive might be he has only thrown 31 innings the last 2 years b/c of injury with him being 34.
I do like this trade. We definitely need some guys like this.
I would love for just one more bullpen signing though. Great value for Palacios though. With Baker, Carlson, and Burleson, there probably isn’t a spot for him on our bench even.
jnevel-
Thanks. Flashbacks to trades with the Rays are starting to come back. Sigh.
I thought about Siani on the walk home and you’re right. The likely late inning moves are to replace Walker on defense (and Siani helps with that) or Winn on offense (and Edman could move to SS with Siani in CF, so Siani helps with that, too).
I agree that Palacios would have rotted. I’m nervous for what he becomes, but since we got him practically for free my guess is that 4th OF is the max. I guess if Winn can’t hold down the SS spot so Edman has to play there that the 4th OF spot becomes dicey. Starting three of Noot, Carlson, Walker. Donovan as 4th, with less DH time for him and/or Gorman? More DH time for Burleson?
With this acquisition there is probably only one bullpen spot available unless there’s an injury, two spots if they decide to take 13 pitchers north after spring training, which could very well happen because of the Palacios trade, and a third spot if they make Pallante’s spot competitive. So, the competition will be among John King, probably Andre Pallante, and Wilking Rodriguez, Ryan Fernandez, and Nick Robertson. It will be fascinating to watch how this plays out. King is the only lefty in the bunch. He had good success for the Cardinals in 2023 after the trade with the Rangers, but is not very highly regarded, it seems. Personally, I’d love to see Rodriguez make the cut although they do have flexibility with him. (For me, W-Rod is sort of a feel good story.) Ryan Fernandez has to be good enough to make the cut, or he goes back to Boston, and the Cardinals wasted $50K by picking him up in the Rule 5. I hope Pallante worked hard during the offseason. His spot is vulnerable, IMHO.
I’m thinking that Pallante and King make the cut. And they keep Fernandez in the bullpen long enough to figure out if he deserves the spot. If Rodriguez pitches well at Memphis, he gets the first call up when needed. Robertson will get called up at some point in 2024, if he pitches well at Memphis.
Now that Palacios is gone, Siani moves up to the sixth OF. No room for him until injuries hit.
Noot, Edman, Walker with Carlson and Burleson as 2 reserve OFs
3 other hitters on the bench/in DH mix: Herrera, Donovan, Fermin/Kennedy
No room for Baker, either… Same for Young as a corner guy.
Brian-
I’d sure rather see Burleson as just 1B/DH/PH than OF. Not sure how much Fermin or Kennedy brings vs. Siani. Even with Edman as primary CF, I’d think he would be backup SS, and Donovan gives infield backup, too.
I will be very surprised if Edman is the only backup infielder (assuming Donovan is DH) and they carry six outfielders (including Edman). They should let Edman concentrate on CF. They don’t need Siani given they have Carlson as reserve CF. Noot could also play there with Burleson in left. That is more likely than Siani, IMO.
I will bet that either Fermin or Kennedy will be on the team solely for their defensive role. Even then the Cards are exposed at backup SS.
Palacios is working at driveline to make Pham and Arozarena look like chumps compared to the new Ken Griffey Jr. patroling center at Tropicana next season.
Love the trade, though.Thank you @Cardinals for taking a chance on me, I really enjoyed my time there in St. Louis. St. Louis fans I appreciate the love and support you guys had in my short time there! Going to miss my teammates, coaches and fans for sure.
— Richie Palacios (@richiemille) January 6, 2024
(assuming Donovan is DH)
Oli likes to use Donovan as a super utility guy that he can move around all over the field. I’m not sure what his rationale is for that, but that’s the way he managed last year. If Oli still wants to do that in 2024, that would open up a spot for Baker as DH. I’d like to find out if Baker’s power is for real, and if it is, Baker ought to be a regular right-handed DH…… unless I’m missing something.
If you look at Brendon and Tommy as both outfielders and infielders, then you only need one extra outfielder allowing Baker an opportunity if he hits next spring.
I just don’t see any value in Fermin or Kennedy other than an emergency injury replacement. Whereas Siani actually provides quite a bit of value to pinch run or as a defensive replacement. If an infielder were to get hurt, then we can call up someone typically by the next day. Until then, they sub with who they have. Part of the issue with last year’s team was that we had too many guys who needed regular at bats and it felt completely unfair to not give them out. This caused frustration. Siani alleviates some of that and adds unique value. Fermin or Kennedy can be almost as valuable playing in AAA as a phone call away. It really is the right move.
I do think the Cards can only have one of Baker or Burleson. So Baker becomes the odd man out unless Burleson is traded or he or Goldschmidt gets injured. Otherwise, it doesn’t really make much sense to carry both. And that’s why I keep falling back to Siani. Does he deserve to be on the MLB squad over others? Heck no. But he certainly fits a whole lot better. And the team is not the sum of its parts. It’s the sum of its usable parts. Burleson and Baker are mostly are redundant. We’d just be trying to feed them both at bats but we wouldn’t be able to keep both of them locked in with enough at bats. But Siani offers a unique skill set that are an addition of value. And I really hope the Cardinals agree.
If Marmol starts pulling Walker for for a late inning defensive replacement this season, I’ll eat my hat.
I think we will again see non-versatile, defensively limited, slow, hulking basher wannabes mostly glued to the bench. It would be better to have pesky swiss army knife guys on the bench, but benefiting from that would require manager driven in-game tactical fluidity. That is so not the Cardinals it is pointless to think about. The Cardinals in-game modus operendi puts that next level of excellence out of reach.
J, if the FO carries both Burly and Baker on the bench by choice, they may be looking for their 2025 1Bman, or at least looking at plan B if Goldy declines further in 2024.
The TV contract is still an unknown. I hope they are not done spending. We are at 205.8mil on the CBT 40man.
I like this trade for the pen. The risk/reward favors a reward, but this is no Hector Neris acquisition either.
On my comment about Donovan as DH, I will clarify. I did not mean that Donovan will be the every day DH. It was shorthand to mean he will give different guys a day off in the field as they take an easier day at DH. That includes 1B, 2B, 3B and corner OF. Only SS and CF are exposed.
I agree with the thought that Baker and Burleson both probably won’t make the team (unless there are injuries). But I don’t think Siani will be the beneficiary. I see Siani as short term Triple-A insurance (this year’s Oscar Mercado) until Scott is ready. Perhaps he comes up if Carlson or Edman is hurt.
For what it’s worth… Burleson bats left and Baker bats right. Both have shown they can hit, but not yet proven as DH at the major league level. Baker’s power at Memphis in 2023 was intriguing.
Agree, mud, but with the DH, there are only four bench spots.
Herrera and Carlson are locks, and as I said, I very firmly believe there is going to be a reserve middle infielder who can play SS. That leaves you with two guys for the other spot. Burleson is much more likely than Baker, IMO. More experience, hits lefty, can play in the OF if necessary, etc…
Currently, a trending down Carlson is backing up our CF’r Edman, who is coming off October wrist surgery, and who is also the primary backup for our unproven SS.
Pretty thin.Up the middle needs better depth. If it comes at the expense of Burly or Baker to add functionality to the bench, I’d just call it necessary and move on.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.