Pace of play

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  • #135706
    thejagerthejager
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    I am sure this has come up before, but I was thinking about it again and wanted to blurt out all of this. Maybe people will want to discuss or throw their own ideas out! I am not looking for approval from any of you that these are perfect solutions. They are simply my ideas and I am fine with them being ideas.

    Also as a caveat, I like baseball the way it is, i like the slower pace. But in a world that thinks it needs to change to keep up, then this is what i am thinking. There are things I would do as well without desire to speed up too, but i am using this as a catch-all right now.

    Also, these aren’t all my original ideas without having been influenced by others over the years.

    My ideas for speeding up game and makes it more “exciting”:

    -auto balls and strikes is obvious, and long overdue…they use the tech already to evaluate their effectiveness and the players use it understand their abilities…the idea that it has to be 100% perfect is BS as the current way has error too, at least with a computer system it can be adjusted without egos being involved.

    -along with relieving umps from balls and strikes…that frees them to focus on keeping pitchers pitching on time, and batters staying in the box, but they must severely enforce these rules…1 warning, then all subsequent offenses is a ball or strike, be harsh and it will go away very fast….add in a limit to “timeout calls” and you have faster pace. Giving the umps time to focus on the true human factor decisions that a computer cant do is a good thing. If there was a way to automate outs on the basepaths i’d listen too, but the variables seem far too many.

    -1 replay no matter limits that interruption (also no asking or persuading for umps look at it on their own)

    -no DH…might seem not as exciting..but strategy is a part of the game, an with the taxi squad allowing for possibly more hitters, you can see more strategy on when to use pinch hitters/runners. Keeping the pitcher spot as a position that creates a questioning and option for change is exciting.

    – 4 man taxi squad….those 4 other starting pitchers are worthless when not pitching, add 4 more players (2 extra pitcher max) means more pinch hitting and running and possibilities for excitement and strategy

    -no more extreme shifts (2 on each side of 2b at time of pitch) means more hits, thus more excitement

    -limit throws to keep baserunners on…each party has to gamble with this, thus excitement and movement and action

    -raising strike zone is controversial but i truly believe forcing the pitchers to throw strikes where hitters can hit better AND the hitters will know it is going to be will up the contact rate, keeping it more exciting

    There are probably more…but these are what i landed on, and i think they wouldn’t wreck the game (7inning double headers, man on 2b in extra innings, DH IMO) or turn it into a circus…each one is something that feels a refinement of the game or a means to fix a problem that has come from laziness or can be accomplished with new tech unavailable at the inception of the game

    #135716
    Avatar1982 willie
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    Well im not going to agree or disagree with anything but ill make this point on shifts. I dont mind moving players back or whatever for tendencies, its always been done. But infielders should not be able to be in the outfield grass or anywhere near it til the ball is hit.

    #135836
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    Some of those things I agree on, and some I don’t. Give me robot umps, no shifts (2 on each side of 2nd base, always on the dirt-this also gives a greater chance for the bunt to work), and limited throw overs (or the rule could be that after one throw to first, the first baseman is no longer allowed to stay on the bag).

    Some things I’d change and I don’t think they would destroy the game in the least…

    -Scheduled double headers with each one being 7 innings. I’m not sure exactly how many you’d need to make sure the entire schedule is balanced, but in my mind you would play 14 per year, or one every other week. They could alternate AL/NL having them Sunday/Monday every other year so the extra burden isn’t always on the same league. This would give players extra days off and have the effect of reducing the innings load by 28 innings per year, or just over 3 games. Win-win for everyone, IMO.

    -Universal DH. I wasn’t in favor before, but I’ve changed my mind. I’m tired of the automatic outs. It’s not “strategy,” it’s boring to the average fan. And the NL suffers, without a doubt, from not having the DH. The AL isn’t always the stronger league and they’ve won 20 of the last 23 All Star games, and more importantly, have taken 17 of the 22 years of interleague play. The World Series is more split but is still 12-11 for the AL since 1997 (I attribute this to the fact that relievers and bench/pinch hitters are used much more effectively in postseason games, limiting the advantage of having the DH). I’d call those indicators of the superior tactic.

    -Runners on 2nd for at least some of the season. I don’t like it in the postseason, but it could be implemented til the trade deadline, or perhaps as a compromise, in the 11th or 12th innings. No one needs to watch position players pitch in the 14th inning of a game.

    -I like the expanded rosters. It won’t stay, but I like it.

    -Not related exactly to the pace of play, but I’d like to see the service time required for players to reach free agency reduced by a year. At least I’d like to see them get to arb a year earlier if the 5 year rule isn’t agreed on in the next CBA (I’d be ok with 3 years of minimum + 2 years of arb as a compromise if the owners are sticking on losing a cheaper year).

    #135843
    Avatargscottar
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    I am pro 7 inning doubleheaders. Each team should schedule three or four per season. As stl25 pointed out it would allow for adequate off days and it would do it in a way without having to start the season in March. I can’t stand watching baseball in 35 degree weather.

    I am now pro DH. As a longtime NL fan I didn’t think I ever would be but I am. Watching pitchers flail at the plate and risk injury isn’t worth it, not to mention the DH should allow starters to stay in the game longer and gives the manager more flexibility getting more players in the lineup.

    I am pro expanded rosters. I think they should be 28 all year and maybe expand to 32 in September. I know the owners won’t go for it but it makes sense to keep players healthy and rested, especially the pen.

    I am pro limited mound visits, except I think they should actually be enforced.

    I am not sold on the runner at 2nd. If it really does cut down on 15 inning games I can live with it but I don’t know if the evidence bears that out.

    I am against the three hitter rule. That has never made sense to me.

    I am against robot umps. Taking the human element out of the game just doesn’t seem right to me. I am not even sold on replay. In theory it is good but the way it is implemented takes way too long and very few calls are ever overturned. They should either improve it or scrap it.

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 1 week ago by Avatargscottar.
    #135847
    Avatarforsch31
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    To me, the only way to speed up the game is to limit the time between pitches. Some of the pitchers coming up to the majors now have had a clock in the minors and have a quicker pace. I like to see that. With most of the majors, you could have a short commercial between every pitch.

    I would also like to see a limit on throws to hold a runner on. The idea that you need to throw to first 4 straight times to hold a runner seems to indicate a problem with either the pitcher or catcher.

    #135848
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Well put. I was going to joke that the best way to speed up games is to not have Darvish and Ponce start. Last night was painful.

    #135851
    Avatarforsch31
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    Games used to be around 2 hours but last night, after 2 hours they were only in the 5th inning.

    #136053
    thejagerthejager
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    I like some of the points some of you make, the DH thing…i just dont believe in it as I think it removes a pillar of what baseball is. Playing baseball and being a baseball player and even teaching your child how to play baseball means you throw, catch, run, and hit.

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 1 week ago by thejagerthejager.
    #136055
    thejagerthejager
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    Some positions require more of one than the other but removing hitting and running from what a baseball player is seems against what baseball is. The way the NL has kept it, and the way the NL plays baseball and uses it as a strategy is important and does make the game far more interesting.

    Weighing the values of players on your team and during the game is a very important part of what makes baseball special. The gamble. Do you play a great defensive SS that can’t hit because you value stopping runs over getting them? Do you play the overweight slow guy at 1b because he can hit lefties better than anyone else but can’t throw or defend adequately? Do you leave the pitcher in to bunt/hit because you want him one more inning or do you bring in the pinch hitter? etc etc.

    #136056
    thejagerthejager
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    A main point of keeping the DH IMO is to expand the rosters with that daily churn of a taxi squad.

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 1 week ago by thejagerthejager.
    #136058
    thejagerthejager
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    I get the appeal of the DH, but I don’t think it necessarily adds more excitement to the game, excitement of whether the pitcher gets a hit is a real thing too and noeno of you can honestly say you don’t get excited to see a pitcher do well with the bat, or get a hit, or even a sacrifice.

    I mean it’s an underdog story built into the game every 9 at bats. Who doesn’t love an underdog story?

    #136059
    thejagerthejager
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    (btw, Brian it would not let me post all of these previous posts in one post)

    (Also in post 136056, it literally wont let me add any more characters to that post…. i know usually the explanation about posts being TOO LONG, but obviously something else is going on)

    I know i can be long winded, but this (all together even is far from the longest post of mine or several other posters and posts on this forum)

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 1 week ago by thejagerthejager.
    #136065
    Avatar858booyah
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    Well im not going to agree or disagree with anything but ill make this point on shifts. I dont mind moving players back or whatever for tendencies, its always been done. But infielders should not be able to be in the outfield grass or anywhere near it til the ball is hit.

    I’m indifferent on the DH. The shifts I can agree that the middle infielder should not be allowed to shift out of the infield or past the other side of 2nd base until the ball is thrown. If the do and they violate then it’s an automatic ball if not hit and an automatic base if they make contact. Then again that seems time consuming. lol

    #136074
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    I get the appeal of the DH, but I don’t think it necessarily adds more excitement to the game, excitement of whether the pitcher gets a hit is a real thing too and noeno of you can honestly say you don’t get excited to see a pitcher do well with the bat, or get a hit, or even a sacrifice.

    I mean it’s an underdog story built into the game every 9 at bats. Who doesn’t love an underdog story?

    Just curious…how do you feel about kickers and punters in football? Because watching pitchers hit is about as exciting as watching a kicker/punter line up as a wideout for 20 snaps a game. Sure, it would force teams to be more strategic, but it would kneecap offenses and basically create a gimmick where it would be rare to see that position do anything. I like football the way it is, and I would like to see the DH become an NL thing. There’s no reason to have the two leagues be separate anymore, especially when it hurts our own team.

    #136317
    Avatar1982 willie
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    i hate the DH. I always have. To me all the players on the field should have the ability to hit. And people that can really only hit, shouldnt be in the major leagues, in my opinion.

    #136348
    bicyclemikebicyclemike
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    1982willie, what about the people that can only pitch? Should they not be in the major leagues?

    To answer my own question, yes they should, because pitching is the single most critical part of winning baseball games. So if they have short comings in other phases it is understandable.

    But because pitching is so important, throughout the game’s evolution people have been okay with them not being able to work on other aspects of the game. But it has been one of the weaknesses in the game when a pitcher comes up and can barely make an effort to put a ball in play. Plus if they do, expending the energy to run the bases, while needing to pitch whereas the other guys get to stand around a lot. Thus using a guy as a permanent pinch-hitter for them is a natural development in the history of the game, at least at high levels of play.

    #136355
    Avatar1982 willie
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    Well bicyclemike, im going to have to disagree. First if running the bases which is 360 feet total assuming they come all the way around causes them to be too tired to pitch the way they are supposed to then maybe they should find another occupation. They have plenty of time to work on some hitting skills especially starting pitchers but even bullpen guys as well. They dont have to be musial up there. The Dh was put in for entertainment purposes kind of like wrestling adding ladders and steel cages. Plus the DH extends careers of guys who no longer can play in the field reliably when they should be heading off into the sunset. Im a believer in traditional baseball. i dont like putting runners on at second in extras, i dont like seven inning games. The grand thing about baseball in the major leagues is that you can somewhat compare between the ages cause there hasnt been a lot of change and just being super athletic doesnt mean anything, its still based on patience, skill, and work effort. To answer your question, yes people that can only pitch should be in the game but they should be expected to swing a bat and if they want to excel at that, learn to at least be able to bunt fairly well. It isnt hard to do, a five year old can do it.

    #136374
    Avatargscottar
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    One aspect of the DH that doesn’t get as much as attention is the fact that it allows starters to stay in the game longer, which ironically is a very old school concept in this age of change and new ideas. It allows the bullpens to stay fresher, which the Cardinals desperately need right now. During Thursday night’s game both Danny Mac and Jim Edmonds said that there is no way Waino goes seven innings if the DH hadn’t been used.

    #136404
    Avatar1982 willie
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    yea but how often do guys even go 7 innings anymore regardless. Hell its rare guys go 5 innings. Also if a manager takes out a pitcher that is pitching well just to pinch hit which doeant usully lead to a hit, thats on the manager.

    #136457
    Avatargscottar
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    Well I think it is better if a pitcher gets to stay in the game based on how well he is throwing instead of when he is due up to bat next.

    #136498
    Avatar1982 willie
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    managers take out pitchers that are pitching good even with the DH.

    #145373
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    #145381
    Avatargscottar
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    And Carp rejoices, although this probably won’t happen in 2021.

    #145386
    Avatarbccran
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    I’m for limiting shifts, and for shortening the time between pitches. Batters shouldn’t be allowed to step out of the batter’s box between every pitch and go through a time consuming multi function routine just to get ready for the next pitch.

    #145419
    Avatarbccran
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    It there a time limit between pitches? Either for the pitcher or the batter? One source says the pitcher has to deliver the next pitch (with no one on) within 12 seconds, but it’s never enforced. Penalty is an automatic ball. How about the batter. Shouldn’t he have a time limit to get ready?

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