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Ohtani’s first ever home game in Dodger blue will be against our Cardinals I believe.
Maybe the Cards will work things so Lynn is on the mound that day. Just to see how things go.
The Cardinals cannot be any worse than the 3 they played at LA last year …that and the Giants series right before it pretty much ended there year to close out April
At least he did not go to the Cubs. Man, 70 big ones per year. I guess he is one guy who will bring in enough revenue to justify that kind of coin.
I’d say the Dodgers have more of a footprint in Japan than the Cardinals. That’s why it’s worth it in so many more ways to them. They also have a better revenue stream than us. I guess it’s worth it if they get a couple rings in his tenure but the question is will he hold up? He can only hit next year and he’s getting older. The mid 30s of that contract could get ugly if indeed it starts to get bigger later on in the deal.
I get but 70 mil a year even backloaded is too rich for my blood. I could see why many teams of the high dollar teams backed away early on. Mariners especially. That contract would be crippling to our friends from the PNW.
A hundred million here, a hundred million there, and before you know it you’re talking about real money.
I dont think Ohtani will be pitching next season – ‘only’ hitting?
Who is to say he ever will be the same pitcher that he was…
Personification of credibility Bob Nightengale takes on his industry, imploring them to do better reporting.
Sunday Notebook: Shohei Ohtani free agency hysteria brought out the worst in MLB media. We can do better. https://t.co/ABj54JiDbz
— Bob Nightengale (@BNightengale) December 10, 2023
Everybody has an agenda or wants money. Usually it’s both. Valuing character above that is rare, both supplier and consumer. We are a greedy species. Fake news isn’t going anywhere. We need more Bob Nightengales. 😉
What really boggles the mind is that the amount of money this player is being paid is merely a tiny fragment of the insane profits that are unquestionably being realized by Big League owners. There’s really no reason for them to ever open the books simply because there probably isn’t a reliable and accurate mathematical method to calculate the vast sums of money that these guys salt away. At any rate, if this guy’s getting $700M, you can be assured that the guy that’s giving it to him isn’t going to go hungry. Meanwhile, the fan can’t hardly afford to even watch a game on television much less take his family to the ballpark.
The Dodgers telegraphed this move at least a year in advance. If you recall last winter they had a very modest offseason for a large market team. They did short term deals with the likes of JD Martinez, Noah Syndergaard, Jason Heyward, Miguel Vargas, David Peralta, Shelby Miller, and Alex Reyes. Not very flashy. Then at the trade deadlline they acquired players like Lance Lynn and Kiki Hernandez. Again, not very flashy. They also relied heavily on their farm system with the likes of Outman, Busch, Stone, Sheehan, Pepiot, Miller, and Grove.
Why? They were handcuffed by the Bauer fiasco and a ton of injuries but they also wanted to keep the books clean to make a big run at Ohtani. It worked. And they probably aren’t done. They may make a run at Yamamoto or trade for a big name starter. They had been targeting 2024 for awhile.
This article is a good rundown on how the marketing of Ohtani could offset the huge contract. Also, I found this paragraph to be pertinent.
On that note, it’s worth acknowledging that although the Dodgers are regularly big spenders, their front office has demonstrated a keen ability to get the best bang for its buck. While some high-spending teams have crashed and burned in recent years, the Dodgers have made the playoffs in 11 straight seasons, winning ten NL West division titles in that time. They have won over 100 games in four of the last five years, and the only year they didn’t, the shortened 2020 campaign, they went 43-17 (.717, a 116-win pace) en route to a World Series championship. This team spends in abundance, but they don’t spend frivolously. If the Dodgers are paying Ohtani $700MM, it’s because they think he’s worth even more, and they haven’t given us any reason to doubt their accounting so far.
Shohei Ohtani Notes: Advertising Revenue, 40-Man Roster Move https://t.co/FpiowRoIkO pic.twitter.com/v9VnW79MoE
— MLB Trade Rumors (@mlbtraderumors) December 10, 2023
The Dodgers simply are of a different class than St Louis…and most teams out there. They admitted that when the Cardinals had caught and passed them in the late 00s/early 10s, they went after the same model and then augmented with loads of cash to become the juggernaut they are today. As their postseason record shows, money can’t buy championships exactly, but they sure bring their fans lots of enjoyment during the season. Winning 100 times per summer gives a lot of fun to the paying public even if they don’t find their way through the October minefield.
Agreed, stlcard25. Further, a team that is built to win 100 games comes into October with a better chance of winning it all. Over time, they are going to go deeper more often as a result, even when they don’t win the World Series. I don’t think there is an organization out there that wouldn’t trade places with LA if they could.
Current rumors are that they are pushing hard to sign Yamamoto, too.
There are always different ways to view things. When you have such financial might as the Dodgers do, you don’t have to take risks on moves that end up looking frivolous later. You go and get the very best available. That certainly increases the odds of the moves becoming successful.
You need pitching, you spend $102 million on Trevor Bauer for three years. You want a stud OF so you take on David Price’s ugly contract to get Mookie Betts, who you turn around and extend for 12 years. You need more pitching and a shortstop, so you trade for Max Scherzer and Trevor Story as rentals. You need a first baseman so you sign Freeman for 6/$162. etc…
Now, they commit to the record contract for any player in any professional sport in North America.
A different class indeed… The Cardinals wouldn’t have done any of those moves…
gscottar
Why? They were handcuffed by the Bauer fiasco and a ton of injuries but they also wanted to keep the books clean to make a big run at Ohtani. It worked. And they probably aren’t done. They may make a run at Yamamoto or trade for a big name starter. They had been targeting 2024 for awhile.
Yeah they only had $147M committed before this Ohtani deal.
The Dodgers are indeed in a diferent class than the Cardinals financially. I have never disputed that. But they spend big when they WANT to, not when they HAVE to. The backbone of their sustained success is still their development system, just as Bill DeWitt wanted for the Cardinals when he jettisioned Walt Jocketty.
The difference is that when the Dodgers supplement their roster from the outside they do it in a much bigger way than the Cardinals do. Again, I have never disputed that.
I also suspect that other big market teams like the Yankees, Mets, and Red Sox would love to have a farm system like the Dodgers but they don’t even though those teams have the same big budgets, just not the smarts.
Yeah they only had $147M committed before this Ohtani deal.
Exactly Pads. I kept trying to point that out but it seemed to be ignored. The Yankees or Mets would never have had the discipline to cut their budget so much in order to do what they wanted to do.
The Dodgers are now the 2024 World Series favorite per betonline.ag at 11/2 odds.
The Cardinals are in the bottom half of MLB, tied for 18th-20th at 40/1.
gscottar, I will try to summarize my thoughts because we may not be all that far apart in comparing the two organizations.
The Dodgers are a well-run organization with great tradition, consistently strong results and tremendous financial might that allows them to consistently be among MLB’s top spenders. While their 2024 budget may have been low before the signings began, they clearly had a plan to take one step backward to go two steps forward. In the bigger picture than one year, they have committed over $1 billion of future money to just three players and likely are not done. That advantage over most other clubs is HUGE.
While the Cardinals also have a strong tradition, they are in a different economic class. They have been sliding in the results department as well as in spending relative to their peers. With that erosion comes more criticism of those who are making the decisions.
Both the Dodgers and the Cardinals traditionally had a focus on player development – and were good at it. But as we saw in a recent post from BHC, more of the current Cardinals roster has come from the outside. And we know that in recent years the Cardinals farm system has fallen short in the pitching pipeline. The current rotation has no homegrown, career Cardinals (though Lance Lynn was let go only to come back much later). As we all know, it is hard to win when you are a mid-tier team in terms of finances, but have to buy your entire rotation on the free agent market.
Reports have the Cardinals lagging behind others in player development spending and the system’s won-loss record has been below .500 for four years straight after eight winning years in the prior nine. In 2023, the Dodgers’ farm system had the top winning percentage in all of the minor leagues by a far margin. The Cardinals were 22nd of 30. In terms of organization talent rankings, such as from BA, the Dodgers have been ahead of the Cardinals, some years by a lot, for some time.
So, even in the area of greatest potential similarity, PD, the two organizations are not that close today. That is the core of my side of our discussion. The Cards lack the wherewithal (financial and other) to be in the Dodgers class and the results in recent years confirm that.
Brian, I think we have always been closer in agreement on this issue than one might imagine. I have always acknowledged that the Dodgers have far superior financial resources at their disposal. They reside in the second largest market in the country, regularly lead MLB in attendance, have a huge TV deal, etc….I get all of that. But they don’t always act like the sterotypical large market team ala George Steinbrenner.
What struck me a few years ago was when they hired Andrew Friedman to be their PBO. He was the antithesis to the stereotype of large market teams since he came from the Rays and it reminded me of when DeWitt replaced Jocketty with Mo. The more I studied it and looked at it I came away with the conclusion that both organizations were really trying to build a sustainable winning model based on drafting and developing. I had been reading comments stating that the only reason the Dodgers were good was because of their checkbook and I knew that wasn’t true. There are several big payroll teams who routinely spend big but with very little to show for it but the Dodgers almost always have a 90-100 win team and the reason is because they don’t rely solely on their payroll capablities.
When I made the comment a couple of years ago about the similarities between the Cardinals and Dodgers it was intended to be regarding the build from within philosophy while acknowledging the Dodgers would go to more extremes in their outside supplements. It was also intended to be a compliment to DeWitt and Mo for serving as an influence to this other larger organization. But somewhere along the way my comments were ineterpreted as the Cardinals and Dodgers were operating identically and if the Cardinals couldn’t achieve the same results then something must be wrong with the Cardinals. That is not what I was saying at all.
This issue seems to come up everytime the Dodgers make a big acquisition serving as a gotcha moment stating “see they really are different”, but I have never implied the Dodgers are not going to sign or trade for big time players. They obviously are going to do that from time to time (like the Cardinals did with Goldy and Arenado). What I have said is that their core philosophy is build from within and I think it still is even after getting Ohtani. As you pointed out the Dodgers are evidently more focused on player development now than the Cardinals are. That is very ironic considering one of them is a large market team and one isn’t.
So in summation, my attempt to compare their overall team building philosophy becamed cosntrued as they were in the same financial class. Those are not really the same thing. It just means that the Dodgers have more room for error because they can supplement their homegrown roster more substantially if they choose to do so.
I suspect MLB owners will be setting some new rules for themselves over deferred salary… as they did with personal services contracts after Pujols’ megadeal with the Angels.
Shohei Ohtani's $700 million contract calls for him to be paid only $2 million a year for the next 10 seasons, with $680 million deferred until the end of the deal, sources confirm to ESPN.
The CBT hit on the contract is going to be around $46 million, a huge discount for L.A.
— Jeff Passan (@JeffPassan) December 11, 2023
Seriously though, how can he be expected to live off 2MM a year for the next 10 years? With the raging inflation, in just a few years, we could have Shohei sightings at the bottom of freeway ramps….. with sign in hand.
Thinking back, the Dodgers and Cardinals history is a very interesting to study. Going back to the early ‘40s when Branch Rickey and owner Sam a reason had a falling out. Rickey was hired by the then Brooklyn Dodgers. He was a visionary, and saw the future was going to be racial integration. Rickey knew from way back to that the negro players were every bit as talented as the whites, and in many cases moreso. But he waited until he felt the culture was ready for the change.
Then enter Walter O’Malley as owner. By the 1950s he knew his juggernaut teams could bring in a lot more revenue with a modern stadium and surroundings. But the city planners would not go for it, and he saw a chance to jump into the lucrative Southern California market ahead of the looming expansion.
The financial resources available to them, not too mention the geographical location and the intangible fact that kids in that area have a chance to play year round and more than the average are eventually in the big leagues.
It is tough to compete with all of that. The Cardinals have done well to stay competitive, but the last few years have seen several poor decisions due to bad talent evaluations and a dearth of young pitching drafted.
Right now things look a little bleak for the near future of our favorite club, but whether things play out that way remains to be seen.
Yeah deferring $68M a year is a bit ridiculous. I am surprised the CBA allows that.
I also don’t like the CBT calculations. They should just simplify it and say whatever the salary is for that year is the CBT number instead of using AAV and 40 man benefits. Bonuses should count as salary and deferrals should be banned. If a team can’t afford it then they shouldn’t sign the player.
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