- This topic has 28 replies, 11 voices, and was last updated 4 years ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Cardinals: Tommy Edman, INF
He’s one of the best players in baseball, he can play anywhere on the diamond, all the Cardinals players say he’s their favorite player, he hasn’t even hit arbitration yet. There is literally nothing not to like.There is also a former Cardinal on the list in “Never Trade A Pitcher Named Sandy” Alcantara.
Edman is a good choice. You could have gone with Gorman as well, although he is still an unknown. But for the Pirates they went with Cruz, who looks like he will be a star but Hayes has a bit more track record.
Brendan Donovan is looking like another Edman, but Tommy carries a better glove.
I’m not exactly sure what they mean by untouchable. I don’t consider him our most valuable player and I believe his skill set can probably be found all over the minor leagues but oh well.
It means the player that teams should least likely trade. You find no Tommy Edman’s on any minor league team. He is a rare player that is a switch hitter, elite runner, can play multiple positions, elite defender who can hit. Not many or any like that in baseball.
I don’t think we have such a thing right now. Would hate to see three or four of em go. But only ones that would really hurt losing right now are Goldy and Arenado. Edman is great but he’s no Tatis Jr, Vald Jr, Acuna Jr or a Sandy Alcantera.
“I don’t consider him (Tommy Edman) our most valuable player and I believe his skill set can probably be found all over the minor leagues but oh well.”
Yeah, I hear you, Willie. Some of the “best” versus “valuable” discussion is just a matter of defining terms. He’s the most valuable Cardinal, in the sense that he’s a borderline star and makes no money. Kinda like how DeJong was three or four years ago. Or Bader when he’s healthy and hitting like in 2020 & 2021. Or Tyler O’Neill last year. Or Flaherty in 2019.
The best Redbird players are unsurprisingly Goldschmidt and Arenado, the two future Hall Of Famers still in their primes. But if you could get the same (presumably massive) return in trade for either Goldy, Arenado, or Edman right now, then Tommy would likely be the last one you’d trade, of those three. Because his salary is miniscule and theirs are mountainous. (Not that Mozeliak is trading any of those guys, of course.)
And while it’s true that Tommy’s general skillset is fairly mundane, even commonplace, it’s also true that he’s irrefutably among the very best of that type, at the highest level of competition. Like prime Tommy Herr or Mark Ellis, but even a sliver better, because of baserunning. Tommy Edman’s elite combo of defense/baserunning is almost unsurpassed in the sport. The following is a slightly modified copy/paste from a few days back.
At glovework + baserunning, Tommy Edman is beyond mere 99th percentile. He’s 99.somethingth percentile. Tommy made his MLB debut on June 8, 2019. Since the start of the 2019 season (and averaging the defensive values of Fangraphs and Baseball-Reference), here are the top 7 non-catchers for defense + baserunning:
1) Trevor Story +65 runs
2) Javy Baez +58
3) Tommy Edman +56
4) Kevin Kiermaier +54
5) Nick Ahmed +48
6) Francisco Lindor +45
7) Nicky Lopez +40WAR is a what have you done lately stat. As are a lot of stats. Bader had all the WAR folks calling him a HOF’er 6 months ago. Look now. Needs to sustain it a few years in a row for it to have teeth.
We have a cluster of three guys carrying us right now, any one of which could be considered our most untouchable.
Goldy is at 4.4 WAR, Tommy at 4.3 and Arenado at 4.1.
Once O’Neill comes back, and if he stays healthy over the second half and none of those three falter we should see a uptick in our production.
Oli Marmol says the #STLCards need to see Tommy Edman start putting the ball in the air more before they move him back up in the lineup. pic.twitter.com/R72iah4JYN
— Bally Sports Midwest (@BallySportsMW) July 5, 2022
To start with, “most untouchable” is a nonsensical category impossible to define or quantify, but I’m more than happy that Tommy Edman is one of us and look forward to watching him mature over the next few years.
Marmol is an idiot beyond all comprehension. He truly is.
First Woodford isn’t good enough because his slider isn’t preferred.
Then Dakota Hudson has to work faster.
Now it’s Tommy Edman.
Can’t this idiot, this boy manager, ever appreciate successful — in some cases highly successful — ballplayers for what they are, rather than what he hopes and wishes they could be? There is an arrogance and ignorance operating with Marmol that is stupifying. And you can throw “Dylan Carlson, leadoff man” into that observation as well.
Maybe Marmol would not understand this, having been on the earth for a short time and having never played baseball above the lower dungeons of the minors, but players have a powerful need to be comfortable in order to succeed at the highest most competitive levels.
This doesn’t mean they don’t try to still keep improving. Of course they do.
But you don’t order successful players to improve, to change. It is asinine.Bob Reed wins “Post of the Night Award” (see above)! Oli’s full name is actually Oliver Marmol Mozeliak perhaps?
Putting aside all the anger, Edman has been in a deep slump for at least the last three weeks. Moving him down in the order makes sense for now. I don’t profess the best way to fix his offense, whether a change in approach, more rest or something else. I trust the team has better ideas than we could offer here.
But I do know that since June 15, Edman is slashing .192/.241/.231/.472, most of which was compiled leading off. Making a change may help the team score more runs and win more games.
Players are coached all the time. It just isn’t in the public eye most of the time. Different players may need different approaches.
Regarding the manager specifically, some fans like more candor and others don’t. Some like the messages and others don’t. So be it.
Ultimately, what matters is if the players respond and the team wins games. It’s not a popularity contest.
Tommy’s career slash line as a leadoff hitter is .265/.318/.376/.693, which pretty much mirrors what he has done this year. For those who were counting on him to hit .300 as the leadoff guy weren’t being realistic.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.