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Well, Gorman’s also tatered up 4 more times than has Goldschmidt, but the primary reason for the existence of those 23 more baserunners is because Goldschmidt has amassed well over 100 more PA’s than has Gorman and almost all of those PA’s have come from the 2 slot. And I’m not ready to tag the whiz-kid Cardinal manager with any blame just yet…I’m still to be afforded a look at them in the month of Sept. We all know that the team’s dismal failures to this point in the season are going to, “Help them in September…I’ll tell you that!” If that’s indeed the case, they may win every game after Aug. 31st…
Goldy has the second highest “runners on” total on the team. There is no excuse other than lack of production from him w/runners on.
Goldy to the 3spot to raise his rbi count is a tired, false narrative.
Rbi% (driving in others):
18.06 Arenado
16.67 Gorman
13.73 Carlson
13.52 Goldy
13.37 NootGorman has a higher HR total, which is never a bad thing. Gorman also drives in others at a higher rate.
This is on Goldy, not batting positions or other players.
It’s not at all tired only for the simple reason that it hasn’t been done this season. I’ve always been led to believe that you have to try something in order to grow weary of it. Ay any rate, I’m still looking forward to Sept…
I’ll also say that although it’s still early in his career, I’ve had high hopes for Gorman ever since I first got a look at him in the first half of the ’22 season and I’ve said numerous times that I’m guessing he’ll rip 40 HR’s in a season before he’s done. However, placing him in the 3 slot for an extended amount of time this season was one of the dumbest things to do in a long line of dumb things that the current Cardinal manager has done. It only served to place unnecessary pressure on the shoulders of the young hitter.
Yeah, he started this season in the 3 slot and sputtered out of the gate after which the whiz-kid gave up on the ’22 NL MVP after the first 2 weeks. What should have happened, is that the Cardinals should have given up on the whiz-kid.
When the manager bats his best two rbi% players third and fourth, for the sake of the team, it won’t meet everyones agenda, but it is the correct decision.
Burleson has a lowly 11% K rate and leads the team in line drive %. I like that combo in the 3-4 slots right after the two or three best OBP guys. After Burly would come the all or nothings with high K% and HR%. So something like Noot, Goldy, Burly DH, Arenado, Gorman, Walker. That also preserves the L-R-L-R. Put O’Neill, Contreras/Knizner, Edman at the bottom is whatever order.
I think this might give NA, Gorman, Walker a better chance of hitting HRs with runners on ahead instead of all the solos.
I especially like 4,5 and 6 as you have them.
Burly is my pick to click the remainder of the season. His results so far don’t live up to the quality of PA’s he takes consistently. You have to throw strikes to Donovan, Noot and Burly (all lhb’s).Goldschmidt has amassed well over 100 more PA’s than has Gorman and almost all of those PA’s have come from the 2 slot.
Statistically, you want your best hitter in the #2 slot.
Why do you keep arguing against it, when the logic has been accepted in baseball for more than 30 years?
I love Goldy’s defense. I hope they extend him for two more years, although I understand that that would present a problem as to what to do with Walker who I think is our future first baseman. Regardless, Goldschmidt will play somewhere after his contract is up in St. Louis.
Oh, I see now, LA. That’s interesting because it doesn’t explain why when they were in their prime years, Mays, Aaron, Clemente, Musial, Williams, Pujols, Griffey Jr. and countless other all time great hitters hit from the 3 slot…And Paul Goldschmidt was awarded his only MVP from that same third position in the batting order. Of course, there’s always the 30 years kicker…
Yeah, I think an ideal lineup has a couple of speed and good on base guys at 1 and 2, boppers at 3, 4 and 5, then in order your 6 through 9 are best remaining to worst remaining.
The problem with a bopper at two, and boppers usually have good OBP because they get pitched around and are just plain good, is they come up after 8, 9 and 1. So you have one of your big guys up quite often with the bases empty.
At 3, batting after 9, 1 and 2, you should be seeing more traffic, and less opportunities to be pitched around – more opportunities to move runners along, and ideally move ’em home.
The counter argument is the higher a guy hits in the order the more ABs he gets over the course of the season. But from my watching games for a long time, I think your lineup is more productive with your best hitter at three. Albert always hit 3, not 2. Ruth was at 3, Ted Williams, Stan, Big Mac, Mick, Frank Robinson, Yaz. Although in ’61 when Roger got hot Ralph Houk moved him to 3 and put Mick at four in order for Rog to not get pitched around.
2022 OPS+
177 Goldschmidt
151 Arenado
151 PujolsDo we have a best hitter?
Not like the three we had last year.
I’d say at this point a reasonable argument could be made regarding who may be the better hitter between Goldschmidt/Arenado. I just happen to think Arenado is better suited at clean-up on this team. However, no one will convince me that either Gorman, Nootbar, Contreras or anyone else on this Redbird roster with the possible exception of Arenado is better suited for the 3 slot than Paul Goldschmidt. This roster contains two and possibly three players in Nootbar, Donovan and even Edman, who I think are suited to hit in front of the three, four and five slot hitters.
Donovan is out and Edman’s OBP is a pitiful .298, so that leaves Nootbaar and Golschmidt with the OBP necessary for the top of the order. Reality is inconvenient sometimes. Early in the season the issue was Donovan was not hitting or getting on base. Its just been that kind of year. Hopefully, Goldy will be back in the 3 slot next year.
Well Bling, I’m talking about months ago when it was still a season. Donovan and Nootbar are perfect for either one or two and Edman can score from 1B on almost any extra base hit and also provides a genuine SB threat. In any event, I really don’t care how he places anyone anywhere in the order from here on out. In fact, the more he demonstrates his ingenious aptitude for the inane and uncanny, the better the chance he’ll be gone before it’s too late if the first month of the ’24 season threatens to bury the team like it did this year. I don’t they’ll play around with him too long next season.
“However, no-one will convince me….”
Agree, 1td. You have been presented with a mountain of data over the months of your Goldy to the 3spot crusade, and it didn’t even make a dent.
So in closing on the topic, it’s 2023. Paul is not hitting like an MVP. In fact, he’s flirting with a season ending ops that starts with a .7, for the first time in his career.
He has a negative value on 4-seam fastballs for the season, and is demonstrating a slider speed bat. Sell time on Goldy was last week, and an extension would be a mistake, but what do I know.
I do support your loyalty to Goldy, it’s the best part of being a fan.
I still don’t understand all the angst over Goldy. He is still literally one of the two or three best players on this team yet everyone is trying to put him in the nursing home. I guess it’s because of the money he is making. If he does get a two year extension it should be for a little less money per year. I don’t see him headed towards the Carpenter cliff anytime soon.
Goldstein will be on the team next year. However, if his 2024 isn’t any better than his 2023 I would assume he’s going to go at the trade deadline next year.
Not sure who this Goldstein character is, but Paul Goldschmidt will certainly be a Cardinal at least for half of 2024. It will be interesting if we get to early July and our club is a few games under .500. That would light up the “Sell” light on Mr. Goldschmidt, and is a place management does not want to be.
No need to worry about being sellers next July. Mo is going to solve all of our problems this winter.
Goldy IMO should not be given an extension. There are many candidates for first base a lot younger and a lot cheaper. Granted the defense will not be the same as with Goldy but is that enough to extend him two more years IMO no way. Last September he was not good neither was he during the playoffs. His OPS by month this year.
Mar/Apr .914
May .895
Jun .766
Jul .752
Aug so far small sample granted. .511Off the cliff absolutely no. Concerning absolutely yes.
Our four best hitters are very similar in production this season. They are within .004 ops+ points today.
Two are expensive, the other two draw near minimum for at least one more year and club control thru at least 2027.
I will bet you my kingdom at least one of the four gets traded over the winter, and this dysfunctional front office will get it wrong again because selling tickets is priority one.
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