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From what I have seen with regards to what we received in the trades this week it looks like a restocking type of situation to me. What worries me is that Goldschmidt turns 36 in September and Arenado will be 33 next April.
Trading Montgomery, Flaherty, Cabrera, DeJong and getting minor leaguers that are two years or so away makes me wonder if we aren’t wasting the last 2-3 good years from our corner All Stars.
I guess the bottom line is to wait and see what happens in the off-season and who is on the team when we break camp in late March of 2024. A couple of free agent signings this winter might help the situation alot.
r/Esteemed Rat
They wasted the last ten years of a great catcher and they’ll waste all of Goldschmidt’s years plus Arenado I’m sure because they won’t add the quality external talent needed. That could change this winter IF and only IF Junior boots the payroll to 250 million.
In a word, yes. Goldy is past his prime and could take a huge drop down at any point. Look what happened to phat Albert.
As far as Arenado is concerned, a writer at cbs sports says his substantial drop in defensive skill is just a precursor to a broader decline. Look at another great Cardinal 3rd stacker, Ken Boyer“As far as Arenado is concerned, a writer at cbs sports says his substantial drop in defensive skill is just a precursor to a broader decline. Look at another great Cardinal 3rd stacker, Ken Boyer.”
It wouldn’t be unusual for a 3rd-sacker to decline precipitously in his early-to-mid-30’s, but I think what’s happening with Arenado is he’s been playing through some minor but meaningful physical limitation — pretty much all season. He’s half-jogged to first base on many GIDP balls this year, plus it’s looked to me like he isn’t getting the same bend, the same flexibility on defense. Maybe back, maybe hammy, I don’t know. (More likely the latter, as a strained back would inhibit his batting more than is evident.)
I could be unreasonably optimistic, but I expect a bounceback from Arenado in the field next year. He’s an extremely dedicated athlete. And to answer the question, this year is the first year Goldy & Arenado’s talent has gone to waste. On a good team — regardless of playoff results — nothing is “wasted.” And the Birds have always been good or better up until now. Thanks for nuthin’, Ollie!
If we don’t add a flag over Busch at some point during the Goldy/NA years then, yes, its wasted. But its not over yet, so there is still time. They are both post-peak, IMO. Whether there will be meaningful decline from this year to next, I don’t know. Its possible. I would not share Bob’s optimism about a defensive bounce back for NA. Goldy is having trouble with high end fast balls. We’ll see if that accelerates much. It probably will.
A lot depends on how much different the team is next year, but different not just as to the 26 man roster. I say that because there was not a huge difference in the roster from last year’s 93 win season to this year. So other factors contributed to this debacle. Those factors need to be enumerated and addressed.
IMO, two of the factors were clubhouse leadership/cohesion and quality of the coaching staff. True, we didn’t replace Albert’s 158 OPS+, but I think losing his and Yadi’s presense was big. That and most of the so called veteran leaders bailing on ST to do the WBC just caused a cohesion problem right from the start. I also agree that it contributed to Contreras’s problem integrating with the staff. And then Maddox and Jeff Albert left, replaced by inexperienced understudies, working for an inexperienced manager. Also, Skip probably helped Oli in ways that are lacking this year.
As to replacing Albert’s 158+ OPS, we are sorely lacking. We have a few guys in the 120s this year, but there is a big gap between that and 158. I don’t see Goldy or NA stepping into that role next year. I don’t see Walker doing it either, so say what you want about our offense, it will be missing that element again. The pitching wil probably have some better guys next year, but I don’t see a flag coming.
Very much so. It became pretty clear when Bill and Mo decided to hunker down in the do next to nothing bunker last winter.
Reminder from June 28 of this season. Several weeks later, he said he would have skipped the All-Star Game to rest his back, but felt he owed it to fans to show up and play. He previously sat out the 2022 ASG – also due to his back…
News: Nolan Arenado, who homered earlier tonight, left the game with lower back tightness. Team says his status is day to day. @MLBNetwork
— Jon Morosi (@jonmorosi) June 29, 2023
That and most of the so called veteran leaders bailing on ST to do the WBC just caused a cohesion problem right from the start
Wow! Did Bling and I just agree on something?! Maybe there is still hope for the world! 🙂
I think the jury is still out on whether the Cards have wasted the Goldy/NA time frame. It takes a lot to win championships and everything has to fall into place at the right time. Look at the history of baseball and you can find some very talented ball players and ball clubs that never won a championship. Does that mean their time was wasted?
I want my Cardinals to win a championship as much as anybody but I also need to be realistic and know that it happens very infrequently. I do however expect a competitive team every year and thus far Junior and Mo have not given us that this year! If their philosophy does not change then we are in for some lean years until that pendulum swings back,
Yes of course we have wasted Goldy and Arenado’s time here so far. Neither of them can pitch that I know of. They both still have at least a couple of good years left but Mo had better bring in some pitching this winter. Notice that I referred to the PBO not the manager. One of them sets the roster and the other doesn’t.
Goldy numbers aren’t great so far this year. I hope they don’t resign him. Time to move on after 2024. Arenado has a longer contract so he could be part of a world series winner. Knowing PBO he will do just that a sign Goldy to an extension. Not the end of the world but not a smart move IMO. Until the PBO is fired nothing will significantly change.
I hate the thought of Goldschmidt not playing first base for the Cardinals. But I don’t think the Cardinals will extend him after the 2024 season. I think Walker will be at first base in 2025. But with Goldschmidt’s level of play, I still think he’ll play somewhere in 2026 at age 37 and in 2027 at age 38.
Yeah, you just know that Billy Jr. tosses and turns at night thinking about the fact that he’ll end up paying Goldschmidt $130M over the entire course his current 5 yr. contract. Heck, he only paid $150M for the entire Cardinal franchise…Haha!
Goldy’s OPS is identical to Arenado’s this year. His RBI’s are down because they keep hitting him second. I think he gets a two year extension and I hope he does.
I guess, to a certain extent, that maybe we havent really wasted their years. Their first two years together the Redbirds made it to the playoffs. Of course, both 2021 and 2022 saw early exits from said playoffs. But at least they helped get us there two straight years.
I am still hoping for that two week hot streak from Goldschmidt.
Depends on how much of a Legacy discount he’s willing to take and people will piss and moan about a former MVP getting one.
I do think they’ll likely extend him if they feel Issue is where you gonna play guys like Walker, Burleson and Contreras? You only have one DH spot.
So it’s possible we do trade someone in the off-season and trim some fat.
Goldschmidt has name value, he helps sell tickets. Remember that’s priority one.
This deadline was sell time on Goldys 1.5yrs of control, but BillyMo will at least let him play out his contract thru 2024.
An extension could have the Matt Carpenter effect, so this dysfunctional FO likely signs him up for more.
Speaking of Matt Carpenter…..I assume this is his final year. Can’t imagine the Padres or any other team taking a chance on him next year.
The Cardinals should be able to squeeze one more productive season out of Goldschmidt in ’24, so I don’t see any problem generating offense in the final year of his contract. I also believe if he’s placed in the correct slot of the order he’ll end up with between 80 and 100 RBI’s and around 30 HR’s next season.
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