Goold’s top 7 Cardinals prospects

Home The Cardinal Nation Forums Open Forum Goold’s top 7 Cardinals prospects

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 38 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #125336
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    His criteria is no MLB time. He includes player writeups from Baseball America.

    1 Carlson
    2 Gorman
    3 Thompson
    4 Herrera
    5 Liberatore
    6 Whitley
    7 Oviedo

    Rondon, Montero, Torres, Nunez among those passed over.

    https://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/birdland/derrick-goold-s-bird-land-best-of-the-cardinals-rising/collection_d3736c48-caae-5e35-a358-c2e779f23fa4.html#6

    #125357
    Avatar14NyquisT
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Bird Land 7 has a simple cutoff: A player must not have a moment in the majors. Not a moment.

    (So no Knizner-Cabrera-Williams-Sosa etc.)

    When you get down to the elite top 7 competition for those spots is under a strong microscope. The is varied criteria used by every rater so naturally the lists are different. Gould has some time on his hands so he likely dug deeper at this point. I like his optimism for Oviedo and Whitley who he includes as his highly valued prospects.

    1. Carlson- TCN= #1
    2. Gorman- TCN= #2
    3. Thompson- TCN= #6
    4. IHerrera- TCN= #5
    5. Liberatore- TCN= added as #3
    6. Whitley- TCN= #20
    7. Oviedo- TCN= #14

    I also like Thompson ahead of Liberatore.

    #125360
    Avatargscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    I am glad to see Oviedo receiving a strong mention. In my opinion he has been undervalued a bit on this board. Some have consistently ranked Rondon ahead of him but not I.

    #125362
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    BA ranks Liberatore no. 2 in the system and Thompson no. 7. They have Oviedo 12th, after Montero.

    BAs list using Goold’s criteria:

    1 Carlson
    2 Liberatore
    3 Gorman
    4 Herrera
    5 Thompson
    (6 Kim)
    7 Montero
    8 Oviedo
    9 Woodford
    10 Torres
    11 Rondon
    12 Nunez
    13 Whitley

    Seems like Goold’s list is more focused on those closest to MLB. Clearly he sees the prospects differently than BA, FWIW.

    #125366
    Avatar14NyquisT
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Seems like Goold’s list is more focused on those closest to MLB.

    It sure does seem that way…. hence the Whitley and Oviedo optimism.

    #125375
    Avatarbccran
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Has anyone compared 22 year old Angel Rondon to 22 year old Johan Oviedo? Some say that Oviedo
    has a higher ceiling because of his velocity. But their results at Springfield this past season were a bit different.

    Rondon –
    IP – 115
    ERA – 3.21
    WHIP – 1.23
    H – 99
    K – 112
    W – 42

    Oviedo –
    IP – 113
    ERA – 5.65
    WHIP – 1.63
    H – 120
    K – 128
    W – 64

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 2 weeks ago by Brian WaltonBrian Walton.
    #125387
    Avatargscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Rondon had a better year at Springfield than Oviedo no doubt but the Texas league can be hard on pitchers. Both pitchers were very dominant at pitcher friendly Palm Beach, with Oviedo’s numbers a little better. Oviedo’s numbers this spring were a little better also but neither had enough innings to make much of it.

    I still think Oviedo’s ceiling is a bit higher due to his raw stuff and his physical stature, but I could see both in St. Louis before the end of 2021 unless too much of this season is wiped out.

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 2 weeks ago by Avatargscottar.
    #126147
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Unless I am misunderstanding, Derrick seems to have confused Dennis Ortega and Ivan Herrera. In his weekly chat, he was asked about Ortega and talked about him as one of his top seven prospects.

    Chat Q&A (seems to be no easy way to get to screen #15, sorry): https://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/birdland/quick-hits-goold-on-the-cardinals/collection_7e1baade-ec35-5fa9-9b12-0f43bacf6958.html?fbclid=IwAR044MXOo13D1Wc05I_d-AC381Vdc2SjDjaL24oQTcg78iDn_sCTgqlSi18

    Prospect list: https://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/birdland/derrick-goolds-bird-land-7-best-of-the-cardinals-rising-prospects/collection_d3736c48-caae-5e35-a358-c2e779f23fa4.html#8

    #126149
    stlcard25stlcard25
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    On the Oviedo vs Rondon debate, the reason Oviedo gets a bit more attention from some comes down to two starts:

    7-27-19: 7 IP, 6H, 1 BB, 1 ER, 11Ks
    8-28-19: 7.1 IP, 5H, 0 BB, 0 R, 10Ks

    He certainly has great potential if he can control the ball. Rondon also has mid rotation potential, but maybe not quite the ceiling that Oviedo does.

    #126200
    Avatar14NyquisT
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    I read the Goold Q&A and the Ortega/Herrera confusion puts Goold in the “not well informed” category and IMO lowers his cred even more. His answers in that whole session were somewhat confusing. The questions are better than his replies.

    #126228
    Avatargscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Goold should stick to Star Wars and cartoons.

    #126235
    Avatarbccran
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Wonder what a comparison would look like (and stack rank) for Rondon, Oviedo, Gant, Poncedeleon, Gomber, Woodford, and Thompson.

    #126239
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Again, using what criteria to rank? Ability to contribute immediately? Ultimate ceiling? Or ????

    #126243
    stlcard25stlcard25
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    It would be hard to stack all those guys against each other, since some have major league experience and some don’t. Maybe the best way to look at it would be from a “who would you prefer the Cards to keep?” ranking.

    For me, it would look like this, in order: Thompson, Oviedo, Rondon, Ponce, Gomber, Gant, Woodford.

    #126245
    Avatarbccran
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Maybe ceiling would be best, stacked. I may be wrong, but I have a feeling Gant, Ponce, and Gomber are just coming into their own.

    #126310
    Avatar14NyquisT
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    “who would you prefer the Cards to keep?” ranking.

    My 2 cents:
    Thompson
    Oviedo
    Gomber
    Woodford
    Rondon
    Ponce
    Gant

    #126314
    Avatarbccran
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    My guess would be –

    Thompson
    Oviedo
    Rondon
    Ponce
    Gant
    Woodford
    Gomber

    #126366
    AvatarCardsFanInChiTown
    Participant

    Free

    If ranking on who to keep… I added to make it a list of ten.

    1) Liberatore – Upside is the highest of the bunch
    2) Gomber – MLB ready LHSP with glimpses of top notch stuff
    3) Thomspon – If he were RH, he would be lower on the list
    4) Oviedo – Very high upside, I watched him a couple of times in ST 1.0, and he could be elite if the command stays under control
    5A) Junior F – Might take a year or two, but could be a lights out closer or 8th inning guy for years
    5B) Whitley – Junior Fernandez with what appears to be better control, but not quite as “electric”
    7) Rondon – Sneakily a future solid mid-rotation prospect
    8) Ponce – He would be much higher if this were based on just talent and level, but his trade value due to being proven could bring something great back in return to a pitching needy team. If not, he’s in the Cards rotation sooner than later
    9) Gant – If another team still views him as a SP, with the depth in the BP, sell him while the value is solid
    10) Woodford – Never been a fan, so just a trade piece with the depth in the Cards organization

    #126371
    Avatarbccran
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Woodford’s raw stats in 2019 weren’t that impressive. But in a comparative analysis he did have the 3rd lowest ERA of any qualified starter in the entire 16 team PCL.
    Plus he was selected to start for the PCL in the mid season All Star game against the INT. Went 2 innings against the best INT All Stars, allowed no hits and no runs.
    Are we selling him short?

    #126439
    AvatarCardsFanInChiTown
    Participant

    Free

    BC, due to the numbers last year I just don’t see him contributing in STL. However, almost every other team doesn’t have the depth that the Cardinals have. To a team with a severe backend of the rotation need and/or a rebuilding team, a pitcher who can be decent and eat a lot of innings is highly valuable.

    I don’t think how I view him is selling him short, he’s just worth a lot more to most other teams.

    #126468
    Avatarbccran
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    He was only 22 in the PCL in 2019. Room (and time) to mature and get even better?

    #126627
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    From today’s chat:

    Q: Kenny Peoples-Walls notwithstanding, you’ve got a solid track record in my book of identifying significant future MLB contributors for the Cards a year or two before they become known to the larger fan base. Can you please give me 2 or 3 names which aren’t yet household ones with which you are entrigued?

    A: Jonathan (Jonatan) Moncado, too. I missed on that. Let’s not forget that. I stand by the fact that whenever I saw him play in a game he was the most talented player on the field — did the most things that stood out. I’m not sure how to qualify household names, but let’s go with a few names here:
    Juan Herrera, C. Legit.
    Zack Thompson, LHP. Impressive.
    Kodi Whitley, RHP. Ought to be a household name by now, I’d guess.
    Jhon Torres, OF. Don’t overlook because he was in the Mercado deal.
    Tony Locey, RHP. Name to watch.
    Evan Mendoza, INF. He’s too often overlooked. Solid player.

    #126634
    Avatarbccran
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    I don’t get why Mendoza is a legitimate prospect. He’s had
    1,064 minor league at bats now, and has hit 13 home runs. Last season, between Springfield and Memphis, he had 1 home run in 241 plate appearances. This just won’t work for a third baseman, or for a corner outfielder if he’s moved there.

    #126636
    stlcard25stlcard25
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    I don’t get why Mendoza is a legitimate prospect. He’s had
    1,064 minor league at bats now, and has hit 13 home runs. Last season, between Springfield and Memphis, he had 1 home run in 241 plate appearances. This just won’t work for a third baseman, or for a corner outfielder if he’s moved there.

    I was on the Mendoza bandwagon a couple years ago, but he definitely seemed to hit the wall after his big start at Palm Beach. From all accounts, he is a solid defender but that only gets you so far. He would be behind several on the pecking order for 3B prospects in most every book.

    #126638
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    I am not sure it matters too much in the big picture, but you may have missed my report that Mendoza was exclusively playing shortstop in instructional camp. At least it may increase his shot at a utility job down the line.

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 38 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

First-hand news and commentary on the St. Louis Cardinals™ and their minor league system for 20 years