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Who all is going to be available in the free agent market this off-season? I know Rendon is going to be out there but who else? I am actually more interested in outfielders since its almost a given that Ozuna will not be back with St. Louis next year.
r/Esteemed Rat
If you are looking for an upgrade over Ozuna, you are left with 36 year old Brett Gardner…
The Cardinals could upgrade 3B, but unfortunately they extended Carpenter last offseason, so that is probably out.
This looks like a year for pitching upgrades at the back of the rotation (replace Wacha and possibly Wainwright) and sign Will Smith (though the market for him seems to be rather robust, so he will likely sign somewhere else).
After seeing the list I am starting to think we might want to “give in” to Ozuna a little bit and keep him around for another 2-3 years.
Anybody know what the QO will be to Ozuna?
And what it might take to get him to re-sign?
r/Esteemed Rat
I think getting an STL boy, Jake Odorizzi, as Wacha’s replacement makes the most sense. Cole is going to become the highest paid pitcher in the game, and it won’t be by the Cardinals. Odorizzi will command around the $15m range, and will give us a formidable rotation.
Agree about Odorizzi- a solid pitcher who would not be super expensive ( we hope ).Another arm is needed because Wacha needs to be replaced,counting on Wainwright having a similar season is risky,Carlos Martinez is unreliable because of his shoulder and lack of dedication,Alex Reyes is a pipe dream,Gomber is coming off a injury and missed a large part of the season.
1.Flaherty
2.Mikolas
3.Hudson
Poncedeleon ?
Carlos Martinez ?
Gomber ?
Wanwright ?Been hearing about the possible move of Carpenter to LF next season to replace Ozuna…….kinda scary to me.I bet the pitching staff would riot if a OF of Carpenter LF and Fowler in RF,,,,,,Bader
or whoever is the CF will be run ragged.I think both Odorizzi and Keuchel can be had in the $15-20 million range. The question is whether MN is going to put a QO on Ordorizzi. Keuchel would probably not command more than 3 years, maybe only two. Plus, he does not have a QO. Ordorizzi will probably get 3-4 years.
To your question rats, the QO will be $17.8 million next year. So, keeping Ozuna will cost an incremental $5.5 million, if he accepts the QO.
I don’t see Cole becoming the game’s highest paid pitcher. He will get a large salary though, somewhere in the $30-32M per year for 7-8 years. Who’d you rather have, Cole or Odorizzi for half the price? I wouldn’t hate having Jake, but we’d then have Mikolas and Odorizzi making a combined $30+M and if you throw Cmart in that’s over $40M for a lot of potential downside.
I like Keuchel over Odorizzi due to being a lefty and should be well rested after having half the season off.
I’m still in favor of moving a package of O’Neill and Oviedo for Matt Boyd. He would be a very solid #2, is LH and will likely make ~$6M next year with 3 total years of control.
What about Robbie Ray from Arizona? He’s going to come cheaper than Boyd and has some great stats career on the road (3.53 ERA). I think if you got him in St Louis with their defense he could really flourish. I also think that if you get something from Cmart or Reyes in the rotation, Ray could be a huge weapon from the pen in the postseason.
St25, Ray wouldn’t be awful of course, but Boyd could be a true #2 and a lefty which the Cards need both badly. Mikolas, Waino and Hudson are great in the 3, 4, or 5 spots, but neither can be the “second ace”.
Also, and probably more importantly, the D-backs are going to try and contend in 2020 so I don’t see them moving him.
Any word on Gomber lately? He impressed me last year for a rookie.
St25, Ray wouldn’t be awful of course, but Boyd could be a true #2 and a lefty which the Cards need both badly. Mikolas, Waino and Hudson are great in the 3, 4, or 5 spots, but neither can be the “second ace”.
I know you like him, but what exactly about Boyd makes you see him as a #2 starter? Is it the “hope he takes off when he gets out of bad team purgatory” syndrome? Because his numbers haven’t been that great in his career and it’s certainly possible that his big K numbers this year are an anomaly. The cost to get him makes me very leery.
ST25, my thinking is that, even at the highest level, when you have zilch to play for, I don’t believe you can be playing at, motivated for, etc the best you can be. His first half of 2019 I believe is what we would see and the K numbers to me seem like the “stuff” is definitely there, he’s just waiting to get out of a bad situation.
Perfect example was Castellanos after he got traded to the Cubs, the talent was there, he just needed out of that environment.
Going back to the original question, a few other “targets” other than those mentioned are:
Moose and Donaldson at 3B
Not many good OF’s, Ozuna is likely the cream of the crop.
ST25, my thinking is that, even at the highest level, when you have zilch to play for, I don’t believe you can be playing at, motivated for, etc the best you can be. His first half of 2019 I believe is what we would see and the K numbers to me seem like the “stuff” is definitely there, he’s just waiting to get out of a bad situation.
That’s a fair take. It’s a big bet to take by trading a potential starting position player for him though. I’d much rather see if we could move Thomas or another secondary prospect for Ray. But we will see what the Cards do.
Three years of control vs one for Ray is a big deal though. I might actually prefer Thomas over O’Neill regardless though, after the past 4 games, getting on base/making contact and not striking out seems more important than ever.
Until Cards figure out a way to get Fowler gone the OF will be screwed up.Thinking that Cards are serious about Carpenter in LF makes me cringe.CFCT you might want to check out Thomas K/BB rate .Not a real big difference in TO and LT in minors.I like both guys and think both should get real shots next spring.
Thomas minor career 197 BB 518 Ks .252 BA MLB 4 BB 8 K
ONeill minor career 258 BB 678 K .271 BA MLB17 BB 110 KIf you are looking for an upgrade over Ozuna, you are left with 36 year old Brett Gardner…
You forgot Nick Castellanos.
Unless Ozuna takes the QO. Let’s not pretend that this team is going make some earth shattering moves in the offseason. They may dabble in the pitching market for a back end starter or a back end bullpen guy who can close but my guess is Martinez moves to the rotation for sure. I’ve already heard and seen Carlson being spoon fed.
You forgot Nick Castellanos.
The difference between 2.6 WAR and 2.8 WAR is negligible, if anything.
I would like to see both Fowler and JMart traded…
Madison Bumgarner would be a good choice as a pitcher, more upside than Keuchel, though will definitely have a QO attached…
I think the best-case scenario is for Ozuna to accept the one-year qualifying offer. The outfield could look like this: Ozuna-LF Bader-CF Carlson-RF Back-ups-Fowler & Arozarena.
I don`t see the best case scenario of Ozuna getting the QO and staying.Cards cannot continue to run a defensively inept LF and RF on the field as regulars.Fowler is terrible in everything related to baseball,Ozuna offers some pop but is a liability in the OF .Then to top it off hearing that the CCards are seriously thinking Carpenter in LF next year…downright scary.Every bitches about too many strikeouts and not enough contact hitting…Well then its time to start doing something about it.Veteran players with declining skills and limited defensive ability (Fowler,Carpenter,Ozuna) need to let leave (Ozuna) try like hell to trade (Fowler-even if you eat part salary) or have their roles reduced to maximize their skills (Carpenter).
Cards simply must reduce the strikeouts and Jeff Albert doesn`t appear to be the answer so far.Cards also need to get a solid innings eater SP.Too many question marks in the rotation.Use every option available to find potential players who could help now or in the near future (RULE 5,minor league FAs,overseas leagues for recycled MLB players ,Free agency,trades).
With OF options of ONeill-he might never be a regular but as a guy with speed and power you just dont write him off at age 24.Arozarena-flavor of the month for many but looked overmatched in offseason.Best thing he did was get HBP.Still his speed and potential is interesting,Bader-young enough to bounce back and his defense is a plus.lane Thomas-showed good pop as a PH hitter (3 HRs) has good speed and seemed comfortable in his short samle size.With Carlson likely showing up sometime next season there is no reason to keep Ozuna blocking younger guys.Younger faster guys might be less Homeruns and more doubles,triples and more contact.There is simply no value to hanging on to a declining aging Fowler when there are younger options available,I like Ozuna but is he worth takng a chnce that he will accept the QO?A starting of Ozuna, Bader & Carlson is strong enough defensively as long as they are all hitting. I would use Fowler & Carpenter as bench players.
I like Ozuna but is he worth takng a chnce that he will accept the
Of course he is. There’s no doubt that he will get at least 3-4 years on a deal from someone at $15M+ a year. If he does, the Cards take the draft pick. If he accepts the QO then they have a better idea of what their OF looks like and they can work out the “blocking” at some point via trade.
Carlson likely starts at AAA and gets experience and regular playing time.Remeber he is just 20 years old with barely a month of AAA experience.No point in having him in Stlouis to ride the bench or get spot starts.let him get regular playing time at AAA to develop.With Bader,O
Neill,Fowler,Thomas,Arozarena,Justin Williams,Adolis Garcia and Matt Carpenter all options for the OF right now it is crowded enough.Hoping some trades clear Fowler and Adolis Garcia out.Adolis Garcia has worse swing and miss than ONeill and is 2 years older.Fowler is just Fowler.25-what if Ozuna decides to take the QO?I have mixed feelings about wanting Ozuna to return.He brings some positives but if the team is going to consider going for more contact and less swing and miss types then what do you do?More contact hitters with doubles power instead of 30 HR guy with 150 strikeouts?I like the Homreun as much as the next guy but somewhere in the lineup some changes need to be made.Who are some of the main culprits-Matt Carpenter and Fowler-aging veterans with big paychecks.Carpenter is untradeable IMO,Fowler needs to go.Goldy is going to be better hopefully his 2nd year,Dejong is young enough to bounce back,same with Bader,if Bader continues to struggle Thomas/Arozarena might be option.JMart I still around as a LF/RF bench guy unless traded.Its all speculation but IMHO somewhere in the lineup a better contact guy or two needs to be found.
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