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. . . before he moves on to another ballclub at season’s end.
Hopefully Mo has sense enough to trade him by the deadline.
I’d say that’s a strong possibility if by some chance the season goes south before then. However, if he’s able to work and features a nice performance while the Cardinals are still in contention, I wouldn’t expect that to happen, Bling.
There is far more evidence that papi cheated than bonds or clemens did. Clemens and bonds were hall of famers before that stuff. You could easily see how papis numbers went up. People like him for some reason, people were always jealous of Clemons and bonds and neither was a nice guy.
“There is far more evidence that Papi cheated than Bonds or Clemens did. Clemens and Bonds were hall of famers before that stuff.”
Yeah, Big Papi didn’t really deny it, even. “I tested positive somehow, and I’m gonna find out how that happened, doggone it!” (Except, he probably used profanity.)
As for Bonds, there were hundreds of hours of testimony and thousands of pages of documentation presented during the BALCO drug trial, establishing that Bonds purchased from Victor Conte’s company somewhere between 8 and 11 different illegal PEDs on dozens if not hundreds of occasions, over the course of several years. Details are available in the book Game Of Shadows. It is a subjective matter whether all of that sworn testimony and paperwork outranks Big PEDi’s positive drug test.
I agree, Willie, that Barry was a Hall Of Famer before the drug cheating. More’s the pity. But in the matter of Clemens, I’m not so sure. He did have a good case, but maybe not airtight. He began doping as soon as he left Boston at age 34. With the Carmines he did this:
192-111, 3.06 ERA, 144 ERA+, nearly 2,800 innings, and almost 2,600 strikeouts. The ERA+ was fantastic, but the wins and whiffs were lacking just a bit, especially by the standards of 15-20 years ago. I think he would’ve gotten in, but maybe 4th or 5th ballot?
I feel like there’s maybe been an odd development over just the past 15-20 years when it comes to Hall Of Fame standards, and to a certain extent the very meaning of Hall membership. While it’s very tempting, very seductive to just look at the back-of-the-baseball-card numbers, being inducted into the Hall Of Fame is not a right that a player earns on the field. It is an honor that’s bestowed. A lot goes into that .
I think you are right Bob. The timeline you mention coincides with the explosion of analytics in baseball. Everything has been reduced to an algorithm or a spreadsheet with the human element removed. I think sportsmanship and character should be considered although I admit they are more difficult to measure. Consider Ty Cobb. He got voted in and he was never known as a gentleman.
gscottar said:
Everything has been reduced to an algorithm or a spreadsheet with the human element removed.
But that is not the case here. The spreadsheet says Bonds and Clemens are first-ballot selections. First the writers and now the former players (who likely are not spreadsheet focused) gave them the thumbs down.
But that is not the case here. The spreadsheet says Bonds and Clemens are first-ballot selections. First the writers and now the former players (who likely are not spreadsheet focused) gave them the thumbs down.
Agreed. I was referring to the fans and pundits who are advocating for their admission.
Saw that Fred McGriff got in. Can’t argue with that as he was a solid player. Not one of those automatic, no brainer “Famers, but one of those solid players that you need to have to win pennants.
Literally do not even care about the hall of fame anymore after schilling. If cooperstown burned to the ground i would just hope nobody got hurt. And if you call yourself a true baseball fan and support schilling not being in- deep down you know lol. What a joke.
Schilling will eventually make it in as his numbers are worthy, and he was a terrific post season pitcher. He is not an automatic no brainer like a Seaver or Spahn, but is worthy of getting the call.
Getting to the Hall has some objective and subjective characteristics, which makes it a highly debatable honor.
Anyone see that movie from about 20 years ago where Alan Arkin played a retired former player who always waited for the call? Can’t remember the name of it. He thinks he should be in but keeps getting passed by. Finally, in true Hollywood fiction, he is fed up with not getting voted in and he goes to Cooperstown and breaks into the building, and sets up his own display. He decides that if they won’t elect him in, he will get in himself by setting up his own Hall of Fame tribute. Pretty good flick, but you don’t hear much about it.
Maybe the made-for-TV movie from the 1990’s entitled Cooperstown, BikeMike?
Love Alan Arkin. Nothing against Eddie Murphy, but I was overjoyed when Arkin got his Oscar for Little Miss Sunshine. Shoulda got one for The In-Laws ages ago, but guys don’t get Oscars for comedy.
All things being equal, Schilling’s 79.5 WAR ranks him 65th all-time, above dozens of Hall-of-Famers who have had their plaques hung for years. He has the highest WAR(79.5) of any player not in the HOF.
I agree, Gamecard. However, in addition to what you just mentioned, he was a veritable monster in the post-season. Second to none with a lot of money pushed to the middle of the table.
It’s becoming the oscars of baseball and i think schilling sees that. So until alot of these idiot writers (and they are idiots) are no longer around or voting- i dont think schilling would even care to be in? Maybe in a few decades- who knows.
People want to excoriate the baseball writers, but Schilling came much, much closer to getting in via the writers than he just did a week ago with the Veteran’s Committee (7 votes of a possible 16), which included many of his ballplaying peers.
He was over 70% twice with the writers, before becoming frustrated and demanding that his name be removed from consideration — after which his total regressed to just 58%. If he hadn’t done that, who knows?
GameCard said:
All things being equal, Schilling’s 79.5 WAR ranks him 65th all-time, above dozens of Hall-of-Famers who have had their plaques hung for years. He has the highest WAR(79.5) of any player not in the HOF.
That surprised me. I looked up just one player. Pete Rose barely edged him out at 79.6 bWAR and 80.1 fWAR.
P.S. For those who want to learn more about Schilling, I suggest Googling it. I don’t mind the discussion here about the HOF, but we need to stay away from the non-baseball elements of his story.
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