Cardinals now= more talented and exciting.

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  • #66589
    Avatar858booyah
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    I can see some smoke in the Martinez trade talk. I find it ironic he’s been moved out the pen in quiet time. You can read a little into how they think he can be most effective out of the pen to be ready for 2019 but if he can pitch then why not in the rotation? If he couldn’t then why not shelve him for the season unless they’ve been either instructed to or Shildt thinks there’s an issue with him in the clubhouse and the dugout. It appears to be a less jovial dugout. Even the Conga line seemed like it’s a tad half assed with some deciding to not participate.

    I think everyone’s what the #1 reason is why were winning.

    #66640
    AvatarCardinals27
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    I think the new members of the bullpen are the biggest reason for then better play, 2)the change in managers, 3) More timely hitting, 4) Consistently good starting pitching It is truly amazing with all of the injuries that we are in this position. How many other teams could have lost this many starting pitchers?

    #66643
    Avatar14NyquisT
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    No Fowler 15-3. Not surprising… not only was he playing terrible, but his replacement played so much better. How does a team keep playing a .180 hitter (.167 at home) for so many ABs? Batting first he hit .169. Contract or no contract he flat out should not been in the lineup and his poor defense should have kept him off the field.

    He’ll be 33 by opening day. It would seem that he isn’t motivated in part because of the size of his contract. Does he not care how, when, where, or who he plays for? His style of play was one reason the team was vastly improved in his absence. Bringing him back in ’19 would be absurd. The chemistry in the clubhouse is working now and he might be a detriment to it.

    Everyone knows that the FO was wrong bringing him here. We get it. Now is a good time to fix it for crying out loud.

    #66663
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Has Fowler left the team? If not, he is in the clubhouse. But let’s assume he disappeared the very instant he was placed on the DL. The team had won 10 of 18, including two, working on three, straight series wins with Shildt as manager and Fowler active.

    Feels like narratives get spun sometimes when there is an agenda. Does anyone here not know already how you feel about Fowler and his signing? Anyone?

    #66781
    Avatar14NyquisT
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    I’ve heard that Fowler is not with the team… it wouldn’t surprise me if that is the case.

    Have I said something that isn’t so? Do you feel that bringing Fowler back would be the prudent thing to do? Its seems that you just might like the Fowleresque style of playing and condone the last in, first out approach for trying to improve on one’s play. That stuff is contagious and I say good riddance.

    I’m not the only one ragging on Fowler. I believe that a good percentage of Cards fans never want him back in the birds on the bat.

    I certainly do have an agenda… get the FO to admit that they (Mozeliak) spent a lot of money for a lot of years on a guy that’s not much of a ballplayer, and overrated ballplayers annoy me to no end. Its the underrated quiet guys that I admire rather than the self-centered loud-mouths playing the fool.

    We’ll just have to agree to disagree concerning Fowler’s worth to this organization.

    #66784
    AvatarCardinals2016
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    he team had won 10 of 18, , including two, working on three, straight series wins with Shildt as manager and Fowler active.

    Feels like narratives get spun sometimes when there is an agenda.

    So, they were roughly .500 when he was still playing, just as they had been all season.

    #66785
    AvatarCariocaCardinal
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    Many factors have contributed to the improved play. Read an article that since the break we are near the top in defensive runs saved. I cant believe we made a few OF changes and improved so dramatically. Maybe it is better positioning by Warner but it was Shildt he replaced!

    In any case, my number one reason (but certainly not the only or even manority reason) would be the addition of Hudson to the pen. He has allowed everyone else to settle in to steady roles and taken weight off of Norris and Hicks.

    #66786
    AvatarCariocaCardinal
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    I thought this system prevented duplicate posts!

    #66789
    AvatarCardinals2016
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    In any case, my number one reason (but certainly not the only or even manority reason) would be the addition of Hudson to the pen.

    I think it’s a combination of getting rid of bad apples in the club house, dramatically improving the bullpen, and finally going with the youth movement who were being blocked by people underperforming.

    The absence of Fowler from the lineup isn’t the cause of the surge, but it is a factor.

    So is having relievers capable of going multiple innings in the bullpen.

    And not playing people out of position.

    If I were to assign the biggest factor, I would say it is a lifting of the mood in the clubhouse with Matheny gone and a few of the players who were contributing to the bad atmosphere (possibly) gone. We still don’t know who they were, but there seem to be indications Fowler was one of them, and it is easy to see how Pham might grate on his teammates.

    When you consistently run a player out there who was performing as badly as Fowler was performing, you send the WRONG message to a team that is supposed to be trying to win.

    #66790
    AvatarCardinals2016
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    I thought this system prevented duplicate posts!

    It happened to me once. Others, I have seen it happen more frequently.

    #66831
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    I am not defending Fowler as a player. He has been awful. I do, however, understand why they were trying him after the managerial change. No one was clairvoyant to know that Wong, for example, would take off, and Fowler did not.

    I also get why they may have wanted to try to improve his trade value, which cannot occur from the bench (or DL). It is an awful lot of money to eat. It is easy for tough-talking internet GMs to tell DeWitt to swallow over $50 million of his dollars. If it was your money, however, it would be a heck of a lot tougher to do. I am just trying to be realistic.

    #66859
    AvatarCardinals2016
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    While that is realistic, Brian, the club has to make a choice. Do they prefer to get into the playoffs and get the increased revenues that go along with it, or do they prefer to keep giving Fowler chances to prove himself?

    The message they tell everyone is they want to compete for championships. The message they send by trotting Fowler out there night after night is that the size of the contract determines playing time, even if it’s not in the best interest of the team.

    Fowler is a sunk cost. It’s the nature of guaranteed contracts. Business owners make decisions to end ill-fated investments all the time. Typically not to the tune of $82.5 million, but the Cardinals chose to make a $50 million overpayment to secure Fowler’s services from the beginning. They knew the last few years of his contract would be bad, it now appears his entire contract will be.

    At least by making the playoffs, they can recoup some of those sunk costs. Each home playoff game brings at least $600,000 in gate revenue alone (assuming 40,000 attendance at $15 per ticket, which should be conservative). Plus TV revenues, merchandise sales, concession sales, etc. And then there is the branding, goodwill and increased merchandise sales associated with having a winning product on the field, that accrues after the season has ended.

    #66871
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    As I see it, the faulty assumption being made here is that there was a binary decision – play Fowler and miss the playoffs or don’t play Fowler and make it. However, nothing is anywhere near that simple. The reality is in the wide, gray area in between.

    #66886
    Avatar14NyquisT
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    Maybe playing Fowler to see if there would be any improvement because of the size of his contract didn’t play well with other players (hence the major improvement in winning with him gone). Along with his attitude and lackadaisical style of play, just added to the notion that the team came second to the the FO’s embarrassment.

    What contending team serious about winning plays a .180, with defensive difficulties, everyday in August? The answer is only the St.Louis Cardinals. Management just needs to take a big gulp and let’s move on.

    #66897
    Avatargscottar
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    C2016, where are these $15 playoff tickets you speak of? Add a zero to the end of that you and you will be getting a little closer.

    I attended Game 3 of the 2013 World Series and sat in the bleachers. As I am not a season ticket holder I had to get them from Stub Hub. They were $700 each.

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 3 months ago by Avatargscottar.
    #67274
    Avatar14NyquisT
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    #67850
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    For those still convinced that getting rid of that bad apple Fowler spurred the change in attitudes, here is a shot from the first inning today. As you can see, Fowler is with the team, but is off in the corner sulking. Oh wait, no, that is him between the manager and bench coach. 😉

    #67860
    AvatarPugsleyAddams
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    You sure that isn’t Willie McGee, Brian.

    #67861
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    It isn’t Willie unless he got a lot younger, grew a beard and is wearing one of Fowler’s uniforms. Willie is standing on the steps to the right of this group (not visible in photo).

    #67873
    AvatarPugsleyAddams
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    “Not visible in photo”…..very interesting.

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