Article on Wong

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  • #171343
    ZTR
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    There is a recent article on Wong that basically states he has retained his confidence and his power at the plate after scrapping the Cardinal’s advice.

    This feeds into what some have said about player’s hitting getting worse when they come to StL – outside of the ballpark effect.

    https://theathletic.com/2799496/2021/08/31/brewers-kolten-wong-finds-his-confidence-regains-his-power-after-scrapping-cardinals-leadoff-advice/

    #171345
    bccran
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    Wow. That’s enlightening. Thanks for posting.

    #171348
    Brian Walton
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    This thread is also enlightening as it provides another perspective, backed up by other points.

    #171357
    ZTR
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    ‘retained’ should be ‘regained’.

    #171359
    forsch31
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    It is starting to get enlightening about the Cardinals system and how they instruct hitting. Is the instruction the problem? If so, who developed the plan? Also, who OKed the plan? Lastly, do they intend to continue using that plan?

    #171363
    blingboy
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    Wong was smart to toss it overboard when he left town. DeJong will probably hit better when he gets out of here too.

    #171368
    kscardfan
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    larussa and matheny were tough on the young players and loved their Vets. The young guys would see a veteran go 2 or 12 and stay in the lineup. And they could have a good run going and the minute they had an ofer down they went for 3-4 games. Hard to build confidence when you are looking over your shoulder daily. I don’t know what’s going on with Albert and what if anything they are doing to change players swings. It’s not working. Time for a change.

    #171423
    bicyclemike
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    I could only read the first paragraph or so without a subscription. But there is building evidence of guys having more success when they leave the Cardinals system.

    Not sure what the deal is, but it seems the Cards coaches try to change guys from their natural approach.

    Whatever they are doing, management needs to take a good look, and maybe interview a few former players about it and see if there is a good case to make a change – fire Albert in other words.

    #171430
    1982 willie
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    I’ve never been a fan of Albert. When you start putting pieces together, something sinister does seem to be happening.

    #171438
    Brian Walton
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    bikemike said:

    But there is building evidence of guys having more success when they leave the Cardinals system.

    I get that narrative – but not in Wong’s case. His three best career seasons to date came as a Cardinal.

    2019 5.1 bWAR
    2018 2.9 bWAR
    2015 2.6 bWAR
    2021 2.5 bWAR (to date)

    His career best stat this year is slugging. On the other hand, his 2021 OBP is actually lower than in three of his last four years as a Cardinal.

    I can’t speak for others, but I would want Wong to get on base at the top of the lineup, not hit home runs.

    #171439
    blingboy
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    Albert followed Luhnow to Houston a couple years after. Has a Masters Degree in Kinesiology. As wonky as they come. Probably can’t remember which end of the bat to hold.

    #171446
    mudville
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    I’m not sure what to think about Albert. I think he was hired away from Houston because the Astros’ hitters were doing well and Mo thought Albert had something to do with it. That idea got watered down after the trash can lid scandal with the Astros. But I’m thinking that they should bring him back next year anyway mostly because, IMO, Maddux definitely has to go. He has to have something to do with all the walks by his pitchers. The Cardinals need to give somebody else a chance. But it might be too big of a change to bring in a new pitching coach and a new hitting coach at the same time. So I’d say they should bring Albert back for another year.

    #171450
    blingboy
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    I don’t blame Maddux and Albert insofar as they have to work with the players they have. They also have to work within the system. No Dave Duncan types who come to town with their own tool box. The state of the system top to bottom shows that the problem is not this guy or that.

    All the metrics and analytics and science can be useful tools in the right hands. Like a hammer can drive nails or mash thumbs, depending on the user. Mo has got himself a bunch of thumb mashers. I am thinking the org will limp along for a couple more years before ownership decides they have to do something different if they want different results.

    #171457
    ZTR
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    I think next season will tell the tale for Schildt and Company. A solid showing will preserve the status quo while another .500+/- season is likely fatal.

    The team appears to have a lot of holes but better starting pitching with fewer injuries solves that side of the equation and add that to a minimal relative (to the rest of the league) improvement to the offense and they likely win the division and a playoff series.

    The wish list is much longer of course but, if you squint your eyes at it, you can talk yourself into this team being a contender next year.

    #171470
    GACard
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    Another interesting development. Lane Thomas has a .327 average and .952 ops in an extremely small sample size with the Nationals

    I didn’t see a spot for Thomas and still don’t regret the trade, but it’s just another example of a player having a hot start for a new team after leaving the Cards. Not trying to stir the pot, just an observation related to the thread

    #171474
    Brian Walton
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    Here is more granular and current data for you. After a hot first week, when he went 9-for-20 (.450), since then Thomas is currently 5 for his last 34 (.147) with the Nats. Which one is he? Adolis or Nogowski?

    P.S. Correction to the earlier data as his OPS with the Nats is .864 as of today and is dropping daily.

    https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/t/thomala02.shtml

    #171479
    1982 willie
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    Thomas just fell apart. It seemed like he was the one who could best jump in that role of a person who could legitimately push for outfield starting time but by the end of it all, he couldn’t even make basic plays in outfield.

    #171480
    bicyclemike
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    Wong OBP this year .342. Edman .317. Understand we all want closer to .370 or more, but Wong is the better player of the two. Course if we look at it like the club does, which would be something like $/production, Tommy might grade out better.

    #171482
    PugsleyAddams
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    Who amongst us here didn’t know it was a mistake allowing Wong to exit without realizing a decent return? If we all can see it, why can’t our brass? Boggles the mind.

    #171798
    bicyclemike
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    I did not like the Wong “no go” from the beginning, and as you said Pugs it is difficult to imagine anyone doing such a bone head thing. Sure, Edman could have assumed the second base role, but you gotta be smart about it. Bring Kolten back as your infield and bench will be better, and if things are not going well for the club see what you can get for him at the trade deadline. We might have been able to do something like the Pirates did with Adam Frazier.

    Just letting him go for nothing was woefully incompetent decision making. It seems the Cardinals have done too much of the free giveaways in recent years. I understand the market may not offer much, and if that is the case keep the guy and see if maybe he can generate value. It always good to have depth.

    #171800
    gscottar
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    The Cardinals knew Wong was a good player. It was all about finances. They owed Miller $12M but couldn’t get rid of him. They owed CMart $11.7M but couldn’t get rid of him. The option on Wong was $12M but they passed because it was an opportunity to save $12M in these low revenue times.

    #171803
    ZTR
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    Well, I hope they are enjoying the savings because the fans are not enjoying the product on the field.

    If this team is contending for the division do they make the $12M up in additional ticket and merch sales? Gotta wonder if they have actually ‘saved’ any money…..

    #171805
    blingboy
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    If Wong was on the team then what? I guess Sosa wouldn’t be. We would have a decent leadoff hitter and better D at second base, but otherwise would be the same team. Horrible pitching. Cluster of Mendoza line types in the lineup. No bench. Zero situational hitting ability. Bungling management. Might do just well enough to convince ownership to do nothing.

    #171813
    mudville
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    Wong sounds like a crybaby in this article. So what else is new?

    #171815
    kscardfan
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    Through all the mind games they played with Kolton early on I don’t remember him whining. I thought he handled the bs pretty well. Was never treated right by the Cards.

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