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One thing that I believe to be the case that may not be fully understood is the process. What we see is what amount the team files for and the players file for. But that might not be the amount either side was negotiating for. Pallante might have said he wants $4 million and the team may have offered $2 million and maybe neither budged. We don’t know. But when they couldn’t come to an agreement they file for an amount they think they can get an arbitrator to give them. So those numbers we see come out after. Sometimes the players union wants the team to look bad by choosing a number that isn’t that much of a difference. It’s all a game at some point. It’s not perfect. But it does work as a method.
BHC said:
Trial and file does create a deadline but when you’re squabbling over $1.2M combined for 3 players, you come off as poor and petty, especially when the FO is already persona non grata with the fanbase.
I don’t get your logic. If I believe my offers are fair and will hold up in a hearing, then why should I drop another $1.2 million? You are suggesting a reason is to placate the fan base? I ain’t buying that at all.
Fans already know the team is cutting expense. That isn’t new to anyone. And rolling over in arbitration would not change anything in the big picture. Fans are still going to be upset, as is their right.
But if the team wins games, the fans will come anyway. If they lose games, they won’t come. It is that simple. How much Pallante makes, for example, only matters to him and the team. No one else should care.
It isn’t like if the team rolls over and gives every player what they want, then that player will give the team a “hometown discount” later on. It doesn’t work that way. When players get to free agency, they follow the money. Can’t blame them.
The whole purpose of the arbitration process is to ensure the player is paid fairly. That is what is happening. I don’t understand why people who aren’t a part of it get upset. The outrage happens every year at this time and then for the next 11 months, the issue goes away.
P.S. I am not defending the team or the player. I am defending the process the two of them agreed to follow, which is what they are doing. If the Cards are too low in their estimates, they will lose and the players will win. Or it could go the other way. So be it.
Back to the earlier point on the Helsley quote. I forgot his hearing was two years ago, not last year. He and the Cardinals agreed to terms in both 2024 and 2025 without a hearing.
This year, I found it interesting that all three Cardinals who were in years 2 and 3 of arbitration settled with the team. The three going to hearing are all first-year guys.
BW I’m not bemoaning the system. The system is what it is. I’m bemoaning in how the Cardinals conduct their business and it sucks. The FO has sucked for a long time now. Yes the fans notice and I’m sure as heck the players also notice how cheap this team has gotten, especially when it comes to a measly $1.2M for Dollar Bill Dewitt. The team could still negotiate with players until the arb hearings but they refuse to and it comes off as cheap, especially when they’ve already cut $40M from the payroll. Its the team’s decision to stop negotiating, not the players. That’s where the problem comes from. Obviously you have stated you like the “File and Trial” approach. However, many of us do not. That’s where the difference comes from.
'You're employer's telling you you stink': Cardinals' Ryan Helsley on arbitration process https://t.co/R2NQBIA7c2
— STL Cardinals News (@STLCardsNews) January 18, 2025
I regret I couldn’t get in a question to ask him if he is pressing his Union to work to change the process.
StL rents arb players, is why Helsley expects a trade. FAIL and trial fits them very well. Can’t remember the last player to stay, so endure the process, and look forward to your next employer.
Sources tell MLB .com's @Feinsand that #STLcards outfielder Lars Nootbar won his salary arbitration case and will earn $2.95 million. The Cards had filed at $2.45 million.
INF/OF Brendan Donovan lost his arbitration case and will earn $2.85 million. He filed for $3.3 million.
— John Denton (@JohnDenton555) February 12, 2025
Donovan….278 AVG, 14 HR, 73 RBI .342 OBP .417 SLG .759 OPS 2.6 WAR 587 AB’s
Nootbar…..244 AVG, 12 HR, 45 RBI .342 OBP. .417 SLG, .758 OPS, 1.5 WAR 348 AB’s
That seems almost impossible they had the same OBP and SLG last year so I had to double check. It is right.
For what is is worth, here are their career stats. It makes sense for them to get about the same amount of money in ARB. Donny runs a higher BABIP while Noot has a slight higher SLG. Both are above average players though and I look forward to watching both as they are probably my 2 favorites on the team. I think both have yet to really reach their full potential and can see both ending up with an All Star type season before FA.
Player | PA | BA | BABIP | OBP | SLG | wRC+ | WAR ----------------|------|------|-------|------|------|------|----- Brendan Donovan | 1491 | .278 | .311 | .364 | .407 | 119 | 7.4 Lars Nootbaar | 1379 | .246 | .282 | .348 | .417 | 116 | 7.8The penny-pinching that pervades the organization may have reached a new low. Donovan was asking 3.3. and got 500,000 less. Nootbaar got 500,000 above asking. Donovan should not have reached arbitration…. he should have gotten the 3.3. Pay the man…. he has earned it. I’ve got a bad taste in my mouth over this woeful decision from upstairs.
Andre Pallante has won his arbitration hearing against the Cardinals, per source. Pallante will earn $2.1 million in 2025; the Cardinals had filed at $1.925 million.
— Mark Feinsand (@Feinsand) February 13, 2025
I am very surprised Donovan lost his case while Noot won his considering Noot has struggled to stay healthy and Donovan has shown he can play multiple positions.
I think the decisions came down to the amounts the players were asking for. Since the arbitration judge can only select one amount or the other, the amount requested becomes key.
The Cardinals filed at $2.45 million for Noot and $2.85 million for Donovan. Obviously, the Cardinals thought Donovan should be paid more than Noot.
D’Backs extend their arb eligible shortstop Perdomo, who accepted a 4/45mil deal, buying out two FA seasons, with an option on a 3rd FA season. He has 3+ service years, same service class as Noot and Donny.
On the Noot / Donovan discussion, the Arb process strongly recognizes service time in comparison to your peers, as was just proven.
Noot has been on the active roster 75 more days than Donny, over their careers. The career totals each player brings to EACH arb eligible season, isn’t asking for the time span it took to get to the arb table.
Donny actually has more career PA’s, but evidently service time wins out over efficiency, slightly, right or wrong.
75 days is halfway to Pallantes 145 days as a super2. A significant amount to the arb process.
It’s 76 days difference, but i managed to bobble it. 11 weeks, close enough!
On the flip side, the arb process did recognize Donny’s contributions being nearly equal to a comparable player with 11 weeks more service time.
This an annual formality They are pre-arbitration players who have no recourse but to agree. However, in the past, several, notably Jack Flaherty, did not agree. The end result was the same. He had to take the team’s offer (which had to be at or above MLB minimum) or not play. That changes at three years service time…
We have reached agreements on 2025 contracts with all 28 of our pre-arbitration players: pic.twitter.com/RJXyyJccId
— St. Louis Cardinals (@Cardinals) March 8, 2025
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