2023 StL Game #21: Saturday, April 22 at Mariners

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  • #217401
    ZTR
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    7 games out of first, 4 1/2 out of third.

    When is the last time the Cardinals had this rough a start to the season?

    #217406
    gscottar
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    So is Joe McEwing going to be named manager soon?

    #217408
    blingboy
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    Our win pct is .381 which equates to 62-100.

    Mikolas must have come out right after I went to bed, and it looks like Thompson came in with a bucket of gasoline, correct?

    Mikolas with the 5 inning start again. He had 22 quality starts last year, which was top ten in MLB, I believe. As I mentioned before, his stuff looks sluggish to me.

    #217414
    TexasCard
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    7 games out of first, 4 1/2 out of third.

    When is the last time the Cardinals had this rough a start to the season?

    This seems like the season that never launched so far.

    So is Joe McEwing going to be named manager soon?

    I don’t know, but maybe they should take a page out of the Texas Rangers playbook amd fire the POBO and the manager and hire two legit baseball folks. Seems to be working swimmingly for them as last night a.former Card outfield launched three homeruns in a game for them. Ugh!

    #217415
    bicyclemike
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    We have had some bad starting pitching, but Mikolas looked good last night. Even Matz had good stuff Friday night. But when there is just a bit of trouble, Marmol pulls them.

    I think in some situations, such as last night, the starter should get an opportunity to get through the bumps in the road. Sometimes you need to give the starter an opportunity to gain the win, and not panic every time he has a hiccup.

    #217416
    ZTR
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    Found an article – worst start since 1997. So, 26 years….

    That team ended up under .500.

    This team now needs a helluva hot streak combine with some .500 or worse baseball from the Brewers, the Pirates, and the Cubs just to get back in the race.

    #217418
    blingboy
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    But when there is just a bit of trouble, Marmol pulls them.

    Mikolas was pulled at 93 pitches, so he was done anyway. Matz came out at 94 pitches. The problem isn’t Marmol pulling them, they are not attacking batters and having efficient innings. If it took a guy that many pitches to get into the 6th inning, he isn’t effectively putting batters away. To me it doesn’t make sense to expect him to get out of a jam after his arm has 90+ pitches on it, when he hasn’t consistently put batters away before that.

    The starters are all having this same problem. I don’t know if it could be a pitching approach/philosophy that is imposed or what. But its all of them with the same basic issue, so I have trouble with the idea that it is all on them.

    Mikolas had 22 quality starts last year. He knows what to do, but is not doing it. Why? I don’t think he is hurt. Are they all hurt? No. Then why? Maybe it will help when Wainwright comes back. Not that he can physically blow people away or anything, but he has been around and been on successful teams with successful pitching staffs. He know what it takes in real life baseball. I feel like he knows what is going wrong. Hopefully, he comes back and mans up.

    #217419
    ZTR
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    Maybe it’s all the strikes getting called balls that is extending at bats? Just one bad call either way can completely change an at bat.

    #217420
    forsch31
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    Could the pitch calling and framing of pitches by the catcher be affecting the pitching? The difference in a strike call here and there starts to affect the number of pitches thrown.

    EDIT: ZTR, you posted yours while I was typing mine

    #217421
    jj-cf-stl
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    I didn’t mind the pull of Mikolas, Mike. He supported his start with Thompson and Gallegos, which is as good as we have to offer in a tie game, and Thompson finished Mikolas inning with no RS.

    At 93 pitches and two HR’s on the books I didn’t want to see Mikolas face Kelenic and Pollock again. They had gone 3 for 4 vs Miles (HR, 2 doubles and a K).

    Thompson deservedly got the loss but I don’t have Marmol at fault here.

    #217422
    1toughdominican
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    I’m guessing both Mikolas’ and Matz’ tendency to nibble as opposed to attacking hitters may be a result of a case of being gun shy. Mikolas has allowed 6 HR’s this season in just a bit over 25 IP’ed which translates to about 48 HR’s in 200 IP’ed. Last season he allowed 25 HR’s in 202.1 innings of work and Matz has impressed me as being susceptible to the dreaded tater every since he first became a Cardinal. At any rate, I agree that they certainly don’t seem to be aggressively going after outs.

    #217423
    1toughdominican
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    In my view, Marmol hasn’t made any in game decisions in the last couple of weeks which could incite a lot of criticism, but the fact remains that he’s the field manager of this team and this team is consistently finding ways to lose to the point that if it continues for much longer at all, this team will find itself in a position in which it may not be able to recover. When that happens, rightly or wrongly, the finger is always on the field manager. It may not be a fair shake, but that’s simply the way it works.

    #217425
    TexasCard
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    The starters are all having this same problem. I don’t know if it could be a pitching approach/philosophy that is imposed or what. But its all of them with the same basic issue, so I have trouble with the idea that it is all on them.

    The problem is actually hidden in this quote. The Cardinals have assembled a staff of 3, 4, 5 type starters that are all the same except Wainwright’s velocity. They don’t have that top end alpha dog starter or two that can put hitters away and end losing streaks. That’s the basic problem with this staff. It’s the overall quality not necessarily the individual parts. That’s what penny pinching gets you or a payroll not in the same ballpark as the upper echelon of the game.

    #217426
    TexasCard
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    Could the pitch calling and framing of pitches by the catcher be affecting the pitching? The difference in a strike call here and there starts to affect the number of pitches thrown.

    I don’t think so. See my above post for why. Big league hitters make a living feasting off the type of pitching the Cardinals employ. That’s the problem. Too many backend rotation guys and no front end guys. That’s the problem with this staff.

    #217427
    TexasCard
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    I’m guessing both Mikolas’ and Matz’ tendency to nibble as opposed to attacking hitters may be a result of a case of being gun shy. Mikolas has allowed 6 HR’s this season in just a bit over 25 IP’ed which translates to about 48 HR’s in 200 IP’ed. Last season he allowed 25 HR’s in 202.1 innings of work and Matz has impressed me as being susceptible to the dreaded tater every since he first became a Cardinal. At any rate, I agree that they certainly don’t seem to be aggressively going after outs.

    Again they mistakenly reupped Mikolas. Huge mistake as he goes over the wrong side of 35 and the same type pitcher can be had for less. He’s an overpaid back of the rotation pitcher.

    As for Matz, he’s miscast in my opinion. I don’t really think he’s a starter but they are paying him to be. Sure he’ll give you a good start from time to time but I like him in a bullpen role. I think that is where he’d best benefit this club. Unfortunately he’s paid as a starter once again a huge mistake by this front office.

    I’m sure others will disagree with me but those are my observations as to why this staff is struggling.

    #217429
    1toughdominican
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    Right now you can cite almost any reason under the sun to correctly identify why this staff is struggling. Just point to an area and you won’t be far off.

    #217430
    BrockLou
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    This club is not good enough to do anything special without a significant trade deadline purchase. And to pull the trigger on that purchase you have to be a bit over 500 ball by mid-July (or better).
    This could still happen, but it is getting less likely with each passing day.

    #217438
    Euro Dandy
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    So is Joe McEwing going to be named manager soon?

    No, Super Joe has too much experience.

    #217445
    cardsfan64
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    Brock Lou said:

    This club is not good enough to do anything special without a significant trade deadline purchase. And to pull the trigger on that purchase you have to be a bit over 500 ball by mid-July (or better).
    This could still happen, but it is getting less likely with each passing day.

    Look back to last year where Philly was before they made their run to the World Series! There is still hope for the Cards this year!

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