2023 StL Game #106: Saturday, July 29 vs. Cubs

Wainwright just can no longer get a fastball past Big League hitters. Hoerner just missed one in the AB before Happ took him deep.

Wow!

Nice play and toss by Goldy to Adam covering over at 1B for the 3rd out. We all know that play’s probably drilled as much or more than almost any other, but I’m still sometimes impressed and a little surprised that it’s executed so consistently even at the Big League level. It’s not at all an easy play to complete.

Well, another stinker.

Cubs lead the season series 8-4 and have won 6 in a row against the toothless Cardinals.

and this is before the sell off…..

Ugh

There isn’t one pitcher on this staff that I’d care to keep. Not one.

I figure Mikolas and Matz will be starters next year no matter what but in looking at the ERAs of everyone else only Helsley at 3.24 has and ERA under 3.5 and only three others Montgomery, Hicks and Gallegos are under 4.00

It’s the most pathetic assembly of ‘arms’ I can ever recall for the Cardinals.

I keep going back to: There’s no way to fix this in one year – there’s just not.

“It’s the most pathetic assembly of ‘arms’ I can ever recall for the Cardinals.
I keep going back to: There’s no way to fix this in one year – there’s just not.”

I don’t see it that way. A competent new manager, new pitching coach, and new catcher, and I believe it could be instantly fixed. But without all three of those changes, I agree with you completely and would go even further. If they keep Marmol, Blake, and Contreras, this team will challenge for the worst record in the National League next year. Maybe the entire majors.

With Contreras starting at backstop this season, the Cards are 33-49. That converts to 65-97.
With Knizner or Herrera starting at catcher, our Redbirds are 13-11. That converts to 88-74.
Just a little food for thought.

I absolutely concur that (among other things) Mo should’ve put the “Contreras money” toward Kodai Senga instead, as that would’ve addressed a more pressing need that couldn’t possibly be fixed internally. BUT.

But whatever Mo did or didn’t do over the winter, it’s a fact that 80-90% of objective outsiders (incl. Vegas, of course) picked the Cardinals to win the division this year. Maybe higher than 90%. They picked the Cards coming into Spring Training and they picked ’em coming out of Spring Training. They all saw the talent or lack thereof in the rotation and bullpen, and they still picked our Redbirds.

So the talent is here. Was and is. But there’s no talent in the dugout.
Marmol is average at handling a rotation, terrible with the bullpen, awful at figuring who should play where on the field, and the worst manager I’ve ever seen at filling out a batting order.

Recall the outfield nonsense, especially the centerfield saga over the past 12 months.
Bader traded, so Marmol picks Dylan Carlson as the best defensive CF.
Then in Spring Training this year, he decides Tyler O’Neill is his best CF.

Then later on with O’Neill out, he decides neither Carlson nor Nootbaar will do, so his Gold Glove middle infielder Tommy Edman becomes his CFer of choice. Then O’Neill comes back, so a week and a half ago Marmol tells Carlson he’s out of the starting lineup and should brace for a trade, and that Nootbaar will be playing CF. Except that what’s actually happened is that now Carlson starts in CF as often as Nootbaar. There’s no logic or at the very least consistency to any of Marmol’s decision-making.

He has no idea who his CF should be. Or who should hit leadoff. Or bat third. About all he knows is that he wants Paul Goldschmidt hitting second. He really, really wants that, because that shows everyone how darn smart Marmol is — because some algorithm somewhere declared at some point that a team’s “best hitter” should bat second.

Here’s a pro tip, Ollie: If your best hitter is named Carew, go ahead and hit him second. If it’s Killebrew, don’t be an idiot. Hit him cleanup. Because you see, there’s no such thing as an absolute rule when it comes to batting orders. Oh, except this one. Don’t put one of your worst hitters in the middle of the order month after month, even if he is a highly paid free agent acquisition. Oh, and this other one. Leave hitters in batting order slots where they’ve already enjoyed conspicuous MLB success, and remove hitters from slots where they have not. You’re welcome, Boy Genius.

What an unbelievably frustrating ball club.
Individually we have some real nice players and no matter how bad any particular Cardinal team may be, we’ll still love the heck out of them…..but as a collective unit….as a supposedly carefully and diligently assembled team, there is really no other way to put this than this 2023 St. Louis Cardinal club is bad to the bone. Matter of fact, until further notice, the Cardinals should be forced to issue warning labels in association with any and all ticket sales, warning prospective consumers that their product is “bad to the bone”. Cigarette companies are rightfully forced to issued warning labels with their product…..all sorts of warnings are posted to protect us….. signage on beaches warning us of sharks in the waters….. biological signs prominently posted on certain doors were dangerous chemicals lurk within it’s confines…..highway signs letting us know that nasty hairpin curves lay just ahead…..well with this in mind there should be little doubt that the 2023 St. Louis Cardinal organization needs to let everyone know that they are bad to the frigging bone.

That is my point too bling.

Bob, you are a very distinguished poster and have a mastery of statistics and intricate knowledge that I could only dream of but I think the reason we disagree on Marmol is because we have a different view on what the role is for the modern Cardinal manager.

I am assuming you feel the manager still has the autonomy to do pretty much what he feels like. I don’t. I think that stopped the day TLR stepped away. The Cardinal manager is now no more than an administrative assistant to the PBO that just happens to reside in the dugout.

In my opinion an organization as esteemed as the Cardinals should never have a rookie manager yet we have had three in a row. That tells me we have a front office problem. If you are going to have a rookie manager at least promote an old crusty lifer like the Braves did. We kind of had that with Shildt and we saw how that ended.

How can you not blame Mo when he is the guy who has decided he only wants puppets?

My only defense of Marmol is that he was in the dugout last year when we won 93 games so perhaps we are missing Yadi and Maddux more than we thought we would.