2020 Rotation

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  • #124071
    GACard
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    I apologize for my offseason absence, but with the season around the corner I will be more of a contributor again instead of an offseason observer.

    That being said, I have laid out what I see as the projected rotation right now below with a few questions. I could be way off so would appreciate some feedback.

    Assumption: full health for anyone not assumed out for the year

    My thought is we have 3 pretty much set in stone:

    1. Jack
    2. Dakota
    3. Miles

    Even though I don’t think this should be the case, I will pencil Wainwright in as 4 but I hope they have a quick hook with him if he doesn’t perform:

    4. Wainwright
    5. Kim

    Beyond that, what does everyone think about this order for next man up? Am I way off here?

    6. PDL
    7. Gomber
    8. Helsley?

    How do we see Carlos and Reyes factoring in at this point? I am assuming both are still thought to be wild cards in this situation.

    #124075
    Euro Dandy
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    I would bet CMart will be in the rotation at the start of the season. Let’s see how he does today. I know you said assuming full health for anyone not out for the year, but we know Mikolas is currently in shutdown mode and won’t be available at the start of the season, to say the least. I’m hoping Gomber emerges as a solid factor too — we know there’ll be an opportunity at some point.

    #124077
    GACard
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    Yeah that assumption explicitly stated Mikolas at first, but I deleted that piece. Guess I should have kept it in haha

    #124080
    gscottar
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    At the start of the season I think we go with:

    1. Flaherty
    2. Hudson
    3. CMart
    4. Waino
    5. Kim

    6. Ponce
    7. Gomber

    Hopefully Mikolas won’t be out for long.

    #124081
    stlcard25
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    I agree with gscottar’s group. When Miles comes back, I think either Waino or Kim drops from the rotation.

    #124085
    Cardinals27
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    With all the off days early in the year a 5th starter isn’t really needed. Perhaps they keep an extra reliever.

    #124091
    kscardfan
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    Flaherty,Martinez,Hudson,Waino,Ponce to open. Gomber looked pretty good to me the other day. Haven’t got a chance to see much of Kim.

    #124093
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

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    Kim cannot be sent to the minors without his consent, so unless he is injured again, he will be on the opening roster.

    #124096
    CardsFanInChiTown
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    After CMarts five shutout innings just now, as long as he stays healthy and recovers well from tonights outing, he’s in. Due to only having him for 2 years, if Kim, Ponce and Gomber are viewed as “equal”, I see them giving him the spot to Kim to open the season. Ponce and Gomber would easily make over half the rotations in baseball. It’s great to have that depth, just unfortunate for the player.

    JF, CMart, Kim, Hudson, Waino would be my guess as to how they will line them up. Kim has looked very good the times I was able to watch him. Secondly, I’m sure the fact that he’s a lefty helps his cause also.

    As all Cards fans do, I love Waino, but when is the gas tank going to run out? I hope it’s not this year, but I wouldn’t be surprised.

    Good luck guessing the BP!

    #124097
    CariocaCardinal
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    With reports of Gomber and PDL looking outstanding this Spring id there any realistic chance of them displacing Waino in the rotation with Waino going to the pen?

    #124100
    kscardfan
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    With the expanded roster I use either Gomber or Kim as a lr for the nights Wainwright starts. Quick hook with a very capable replacement.

    #124101
    1982 willie
    Participant

    I like gscottars group as well. Of course, we all know injuries will happen and some may struggle, so its kind of wait and see.

    #124112
    bccran
    Participant

    If Waino struggles coming out of the chute in April, I wonder how much leash he will have.

    #137348
    jj-cf-stl
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    After 23 games, 8 of which have been double headers, our Cardinals have used 9 SP’s. Wainwright 4 GS, Hudson 4, Ponce de Leon 4, Kim 3 and Flaherty 3. That’s 18 of the 23 GS by our current starting five rotation; with Oviedo 2 GS, Reyes 1, Woodford 1 and C. Martinez 1 filling out the schedule.

    Ponce may have pitched himself out of the rotation last night vs CLE, and has logged game scores this season of 50 (neutral), 50, 48 and now 28. All batters have produced a .948 ops against him in 64 PA’s. As a reference point, Goldschmidt currently is carrying a .966 ops in 93 PA’s. Ponce’s 14/17 BB/K and .406 OBP allowed suggest a role change may be in order, or even a roster change.

    We’ve got one pitcher on the roster with at least 10 IP without issuing a free pass or HBP, Woodford (0/7 BB/K). Oviedo has 10 IP also with 4/5 BB/K. Both would seem to be candidates for PDL’s SP5 role.

    Woodford has allowed a .579 ops vs 38 batters faced and Oviedo a .485 ops vs 39 batters. Other candidates you’d prefer?

    #137356
    14NyquisT
    Participant

    Oviedo is the leading candidate for #5. So far he has made the most of his opportunity. CMart is coming back and I’d like to see what Gomber and Helsley can contribute in the 7 DHs that we have still to play. This is an awkward season and especially for the Cards so expect the unexpected as we trudge on.

    #137357
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    What Ny said, but Helsley isn’t going to start. Woodford is the other potential starter not mentioned.

    Top 6
    Flaherty
    Waino
    Kim
    Hudson
    Oviedo
    CMart (coming)

    Other starters
    Ponce

    I updated this based on our talk with Shildt just now.

    Ponce optioned out. Candidate as 29th man to start in DHs
    Oviedo takes his spot in the rotation
    Martinez is another week-plus from rejoining the team as a starter
    Can’t build up Woodford or Gomber enough for them to start since they are needed in relief

    #137361
    14NyquisT
    Participant

    Brian… I’d like to see Helsley start after he gets his feet back on the ground like in mid/late Sept. (Oh wait I just see now that that ain’t happening.) I really want to see more from Woodford for him to jump the depth chart.

    I truly can’t wait for this season to end (actually this entire trying year). I’m having trouble giving a lot of cred to the 2020 goings-on. My head will keep spinning until then.

    #137362
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Same logic for Helsley as Gomber and Woodford is my guess. They need him too badly in the pen to wait to stretch him out.

    #137365
    stlcard25
    Participant

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    Helsley is a reliable late inning arm. This team needs those too. Getting him back will help a lot.

    The Ponce move had to happen. He is just not efficient with his pitches and likely never will be. I like him in the John Gant role, where he can be wild in his inning of work and it won’t hurt that much because the Ks will come.

    #137366
    bccran
    Participant

    I’d like to see Helsley given a chance of starting – some day.

    #137367
    14NyquisT
    Participant

    I found this in the comments from last night’s game. I’m glad that there are others that are just as confused.

    Cardinal in France:

    Fortunately this season doesn’t matter much anyway. We can all just sit back and watch baseball games without worrying too much about winning or losing (not that winning still isn’t the preferred result). Half of baseball is going to make the playoffs to determine who gets the 2020 giant asterisk, so my old American Legion team would stand a chance if we weren’t all in our 70s. I find this whole season an enormous confusion – from uninspiring Cardinal hitting, pitching and fielding to non-fans and screwy new rules. So Let’s just watch the spectacle and try to enjoy it such as it is.

    Thanks CIF for those from the heart thoughts.

    #137374
    bccran
    Participant

    Being in France with fine wine and beautiful ladies can also help with the proper perspective.

    #137377
    14NyquisT
    Participant

    The best wine and the most beautiful women are right here in the U.S. But I like CIF’s perspective anyway. Smile face entered here.

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