2019 Trade Deadline-Buyers or Sellers??

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This topic contains 62 replies, has 15 voices, and was last updated by Avatar gscottar 4 months, 2 weeks ago.

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  • #92039
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    Bw52
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    Forsch-no I dont think this team is one of two deals away from being a serious contender.Cards need at least 2 reliable starting pitchers added.I like Mikolas and Flaherty but Hudson shows flashes of improving,Wacha and Wainwright are not the answers,Genesis Cabrera is hoping for lightning in a bottle.Woodford at AAA might help late this year or maybe next year.You cant count on Reyes or CMMartinez.
    Position guys who need to be replaced IMO
    Wong-Cards can have a glove guy to replace him and his salary.
    Carpenter-looking like a foolish extension by MO.
    Gyorko-time to move him.
    Fowler-sinking back to reality quickly.
    Ozuna-like his power but I doubt he is back next season.

    Bader,O`Neill and Thomas plug in as your OF with Adolis Garcia as defensive/4th OF.Bring up Tommie Edman,Edmundo Sosa for INF.
    Let Shildt be the manager..not Molina..when Shildt decides Molina needs a rest.
    Fix the damn batting order.
    1.Bader CF
    2.Edman 2B
    3.Dejong SS
    4. Goldschimdt 1B
    5.Thomas RF
    6.O`Neill LF
    7.Molina C
    8.Sosa 3B

    Bench
    C Wieters
    1NF/OF Munoz
    OF Adolis Garcia
    1B/LF Rangel Ravelo
    2B Max Schrock

    It might not be pretty while the kids are learning but its better than running in placve with the band-aids approach IMO.

    #92043
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    forsch31
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    Well, I figure a pitcher like Bumgarner will pitch better than Wacha and go deeper into games. That should help the bullpen. Wong is not providing anything offensively but is great defensively. Edman and Munoz should be adequate offensively and defensively. Fowler is not providing much offensively and we all know he is not elite defensively. O’Neill, Thomas, Ozuna, JMart and Bader will provide as much as our current OF with better overall defense as long as JMart doesn’t play everyday.

    OPS for May:
    Wieters – .846
    Munoz – .821
    Bader – .793
    DeJong – .749
    Carpenter – .738
    Goldschmidt – .732
    Fowler – .720
    Gyorko – .708
    Molina – .701
    Ozuna – .697
    JMart – .690
    Wong – .504

    #92045
    stlcard25
    stlcard25
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    1.Bader CF
    2.Edman 2B
    3.Dejong SS
    4. Goldschimdt 1B
    5.Thomas RF
    6.O`Neill LF
    7.Molina C
    8.Sosa 3B

    Surely you are not serious about Sosa?? He has a 58 wRC+ at Memphis this year and hasn’t had an above average offensive season at any level since rookie ball. If he’s a starting 3B, then it will be far more than “not pretty.”

    #92048
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    Bw52
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    Actually I would try Munoz at 3B and live with his offense and use Sosa as late inning defense if needed.Also if Cards did trade players I would try for a 3B/1B player as a option.

    #92051
    stlcard25
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    Actually I would try Munoz at 3B and live with his offense and use Sosa as late inning defense if needed.Also if Cards did trade players I would try for a 3B/1B player as a option.

    With Carpenter’s deal and production, I can’t imagine we could get anything for him and would have to pay significantly to make it happen, like 2/3 or better of his salary. He’s not blocking anyone useful at this point so I can’t really see why they’d trade him??

    If you had 2018 Carpenter with a half year on his deal and could command a nice return I’d be all for it though.

    #92054
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    birdemic
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    Surely you are not serious about Sosa?? He has a 58 wRC+ at Memphis this year and hasn’t had an above average offensive season at any level since rookie ball. If he’s a starting 3B, then it will be far more than “not pretty.”

    To further this point, Sosa since May 9 has hit .113/.130/.151 (.281 OPS).
    That’s 6-53, 2 2B, 2 R, 1 RBI, 0 BB, 17 K, 1 HBP

    Out of fairness, I will take the same stretch for Edman — .261/.288/.464 (.751 OPS)
    That’s 18-69, 2 2B, 4 HR, 8 R, 11 RBI, 3 BB, 14 K

    Also FWIW, Edman’s May OPS is .879.

    Schrock on the season has hit .220/.328/.288 (.617 OPS).
    Picking the same stretch (since May 9), he’s at .100/.156/.133 (.290 OPS)

    Adding struggling AAA players (Sosa & Schrock) isn’t a good idea.

    • This reply was modified 5 months, 2 weeks ago by Avatar birdemic.
    #92062
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    gscottar
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    I am really not in favor of signing Keuchel because I don’t think he will move the needle enough based on what he will cost but I thought Joel Sherman’s description of the Cardinals aggressiveness would be appreciated by a few on this board.

    1. Cardinals: They began Wednesday 26-27, tied with the Pirates for third in the NL Central, looking up at the Cubs and Brewers largely because of an underperforming rotation from which Michael Wacha (5.59 ERA) has been pulled, Adam Wainwright (4.94) has looked near the end and Miles Mikolas (4.76) has regressed after signing an extension. St. Louis talks every offseason about using its big resources, but never quite goes all-in. Here is a chance to financially flex. Keuchel is an extreme groundball pitcher, and St. Louis’ infield (not counting pitchers and catchers) leads the majors in Defensive Runs Saved.

    #92063
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    Bw52
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    The whole system is in a hitting funk.One would hope that there could be a 3B prospect who could be a replacement.The best Cards 3B guys are a year or more away but if a player could be obtained in trade (Matt Beauty,Josh Fuentes or Try France) as a option while shedding dome underperforming high dollar players then why not?

    #92067
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    Bw52
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    Personally I would rather see a struggling bunch of AAA guys with something to prove instead of a bunch of half-ass veteran overpaid underperforming players on the downside of their careers.

    #92073
    stlcard25
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    Personally I would rather see a struggling bunch of AAA guys with something to prove

    Well, you would certainly enjoy it a lot because Schrock and Sosa are not MLB players in any way. They haven’t proven otherwise in their minors time.

    If the money is all the same (and it would be), what are the chances that either of them are equivalent to Carpenter? Maybe 1 in 50 or 1 in 100? It seems like it would just be a player dump, and Tommy Pham Mr. Carpenter ain’t. 😁

    #92082
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    birdemic
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    Well, you would certainly enjoy it a lot because Schrock and Sosa are not MLB players in any way. They haven’t proven otherwise in their minors time.

    If the Cardinals go the route of selling, I could see Sosa getting a look in the majors. The numbers may not warrant it, but I believe he’s in his last option year…this would mean that he can’t be optioned next season. Schrock, after tearing up AA in 2017, hasn’t been the same through his 1.4 seasons in AAA. Don’t think another bump is going to help.

    Otherwise, Drew Robinson has looked better over the past week or so, and Edman has been solid most of the season (apart from a few brief rough patches).

    • This reply was modified 5 months, 2 weeks ago by Avatar birdemic.
    #92090
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    Bw52
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    To each his own but its plain lunacy to keep trotting out the same bunch of fading veterans daily and hoping for the fountain of youth revival.Nobody expects all the prospects to work out and become stars…some will end up role/bench guys and some will fail to work out.Still better to go with youth and energy instead of hoping for career revivals by some guys who have faded like cheap paint.Fowler is fools gold..Carpenter has basically stunk except for a month since early last season,Gyorko can’t stay on the field,Wong flashes some offense and shows a good glove but you can find a glove man a lot cheaper than him.Thats not even considering the pitching staff failures.

    #92099
    stlcard25
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    To each his own but its plain lunacy to keep trotting out the same bunch of fading veterans daily and hoping for the fountain of youth revival.

    BW,

    You and I agree on everyone but Carpenter. I’ve advocated for a pretty good turnover. Carp just isn’t tradeable at this point, IMO. I really don’t think the drop-off in most other cases is that far.

    #92195
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    Bw52
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    ITs obvious something is big time wrong now.Everything is turning to crap.Stunningly bad.Not just bad but really bad.A band-aid trade won`t help this bunch IMO.Just a mess and I am not a big time MO/FO basher but now is the time to do something radical instead of re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.Get some young blood for the veterans.

    #92196
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    GACard
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    I mean it all makes sense that we were hacking the astros. No one left in at Louis has a clue what they’re doing

    #92197
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    GACard
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    Carson Kelly has an 850 ops. Maybe we can trade for him

    #92239
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    forsch31
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    It’s too bad we traded Mercado last year. Just imagine an OF of Mercado, Bader and O’Neill. There shouldn’t be a ball drop in the OF unless it was scorched. Mercado is currently hitting .333/.404/.476/.880. I know it only 47 PAs but that looks pretty good. He is decent at contact and very fast.

    How would a lineup like this look:
    1. Mercado
    2. Wong
    3. Goldschmidt
    4. DeJong
    5. Carpenter
    6. Molina
    7. O’Neill
    8. Bader
    9. P

    Speed at the top and bottom. A sort of L-R-L-R in the heart of the order. Great defense around the diamond with Carpenter being the weakest link.

    If only.

    #92243
    Brian Walton
    Brian Walton
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    At the time, I was surprised by the trade of Mercado, but with the emergence of Bader and Thomas last season, he seemed redundant. For one top 20 prospect outfielder in the system, they got in trade another, younger one in Jhon Torres (plus Conner Capel, who I see as having a lower ceiling). If Mercado sustains for Cleveland, it would hurt more, but that remains to be seen.

    P.S. For an outfield of Mercado, Bader and O’Neill to work for me, O’Neill would need to hit at least 40 homers a season to cover for the lack of power from the other two. They would be good defensively, though…

    #92275
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    forsch31
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    IF, big if, Jhon Torres can achieve his potential, the trade will be worth it. I don’t see Capel as providing anything except being a career minor leaguer. I wish Mercado or Bader had a little more power but I could live with what they have considering everything else they could do. I would even like to replace O’Neill in that equation as I think he will always strike out too much to be a feared hitter.

    Maybe Thomas will provide most of what Mercado could although I don’t think he is as fast. Since we haven’t had much success using power to achieve offensive success, I would like to see the Cardinals use speed and/or on base players to augment the power we do have.

    #95586
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    forsch31
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    With the loss of Hicks and so many others ailing, the next 3 weeks will dictate whether we should be buyers or sellers. I can live with not making the playoffs this year if it positions us better for the future. That means getting rid of Fowler’s and Carpenter’s contracts. Also, trading Wacha and Gyorko. Lastly, they have to decide whether to try to re-sign Ozuna. If they do, keep him. If they don’t, trade him.

    #95591
    stlcard25
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    That means getting rid of Fowler’s and Carpenter’s contracts.

    I don’t see any way that this team can move Carpenter. If not for the extension, someone might take a chance. But it looks like we are stuck with him.

    Fowler is probably in similar territory. It’s possible they could unload him if he plays well the rest of the year. I’d say there’s a better shot of O’Neill and Jmart moving on than Fowler this year.

    #95646
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    gscottar
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    I don’t anticipate the Cardinals moving anyone out during the season unless we totally collapse in the next 30 days. If we continue to hang around within 5 games of the first place Cubs and within 2 or 3 games of the wild card then Mo will tinker here and there with some kind of addition.

    While my number one choice would be to add Bauer and Hand from Cleveland I doubt it would happen because it would be a very un-Mo like move at the deadline and I suspect the Indians won’t be sellers.

    Madbum and Smith/Watson from the Giants would be another possibility but even though they are rentals I suspect the asking price will be too steep for Mo.

    If I had to guess we will add some mid level LH reliever and/or some mid level starter and call it a day.

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 2 weeks ago by Avatar gscottar.
    • This reply was modified 4 months, 2 weeks ago by Avatar gscottar.
    #95662
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    RememberDiz
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    https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/STL/2019.shtml#all_the40man

    I would like to call your attention too baseballreference.com on a team comparison for the players on the Cardinals team. In wins above replacement, the team leaders are DeJong and Wong at 3.2 and 2.0. Nobody else is above 1.4 (Ozuna). In runs above replacement, your leaders are DeJong, 33, Wong, 21, Ozuna, 15, and Fowler, 14. Bader is among the team leaders in both at 1.1 and 12.0. What should that tell you?

    The team is strong up the middle: Molina, JeJong, Wong, and Bader with Fowler relieving Bader om center at times. Gyorko and Carpenter are killing us in performance per price. We might have to just eat those contracts if we want a winner. Right now, I would be trying Edman at third.

    You do NOT want to hurt your defense. Despite not hitting for high average, Bader and Wong are the best we have in range as Wong once again leads second basemen in coverage. They get to balls that others don’t. Their speed can also lead to runs. A walk to Bader is almost a triple.

    We need to look at the BA of individuals again. A leadoff hitting 218 is weak. He doesn’t present a threat if he does get on base. Bader is at 209, but is always a threat to score. It would really help if we got fewer Ks.

    Our pitching staff isn’t that bad. Wacha looked OK recently. We could use one good arm, and we may have it with Ponce de Leon. I’m not on high anxiety about pitching, even with Hicks injury. Our relief corps is a lot better than it was earlier in the year. Gant has had one bad performance in two months. I’m not thrilled with Webb’s control. Martinez, Brebbia, and Miller have begun to instill come confidence. Whatever happened to Gomber? Gallegos is OK.

    It’s hitting that bothers me. We had a lot of trouble scoring against Miami. Miami.

    #95668
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    gscottar
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    I think Gomber is still unavailable due to injury. I haven’t heard when he might be back.

    I agree that we are strong up the middle defensively and that is very important. This team has basically won because of our defense and bullpen. The offense has been very bad and the rotation has some extreme home/away splits.

    Here are the home/away splits for the rotation:

    Mikolas: 4-4, 2.48 era, .96 whip (home)
    1-4, 7.76 era, 1.75 whip (away)

    Waino: 4-1, 2.68 era, 1.28 whip (home)
    1-5, 6.56 era, 1.51 whip (away)

    Flaherty: 3-2, 2.49 era, .83 whip (home)
    1-2, 6.68 era, 1.66 whip (away)

    Hudson: 3-1, 2.93 era, 1.47 whip (home)
    3-2, 3.86 era, 1.46 whip (away)

    Wacha: 2-1, 6.11 era, 1.71 whip (home)
    3-2, 5.21 era, 1.63 whip (away)

    #95693
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    forsch31
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    I wonder what kind of trade package we could put together around Wacha. I could see Philadelphia, Colorado, Arizona, Tampa Bay, Cleveland, Oakland and Texas all possibly wanting another starting pitcher. I think we would have to include something else (a prospect) to get something of future value. Wacha can easily be replaced by Ponce in the rotation.

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