2019 Carlos Martinez

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  • #78586
    RatsbuddyRatsbuddy
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    Does anybody suspect that 2019 might be the last opportunity Carlos Martinez has to prove himself in St. Louis? I know he is under contract through 2021 but so far has he ever lived up to his hype and expectations? He’s had, from my viewpoint, one pretty decent year where he won 16 games but that’s about it. He still walks a lot of batters, 60 in 118 innings in 2018. You just don’t know what you are going to get from him when he takes the mound.

    So, if he isn’t putting together a good 2019 by late July does he go up for sale or trade? When you consider all of his stupid, idiotic antics like cup stacking, throwing water, and hair colors as far as I am concerned it would be time to cut ties with him.

    Thoughts?

    r/Rat

    #78590
    AvatarCardsFanInChiTown
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    My hope due to knowing a bit about his attitude off the field is that he is traded immediately for the best available prospect/young player with control and they sign Keuchel(a LH SP would help the balance). It would be more money the next 4-5 years, but he would bring back a great top prospect or young player under control.

    If the Yankees sign Machado, which I doubt they do at this point, Andujar for CMart would have been a pretty fair match up. Joe Adell plus another piece from the Angels would possibly work also, they have two years of the Trout era and CMart would help that more than Adell will.

    Keuchel, lost draft pick and Adell >(x10) CMart, an extra 10M spent/yr and the draft pick.

    #78591
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    Since becoming a starter, he’s 24th in the majors in innings pitched, 12th in ERA among starters, 2nd in HR/9 allowed, 19th in average allowed, and 21st in FIP. 2018 was really his only injury prone year, which is a shame as he had a pretty good start to the year.

    Given that and that he’s under cheap control for quite a few years, I can’t imagine why they would want to trade him. The “antics” you mention…also known as personality, don’t bother me at all. I like that he enjoys the game. He’s a step from becoming something pretty incredible and I’m not interested in giving that up.

    #78595
    jj-cf-stljj-cf-stl
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    Carlos has turned every non-pitcher he’s faced for his career, into a guy we just kicked to the curb, Greg Garcia.

    #78611
    BlackHillsCardBlackHillsCard
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    When you consider all of his stupid, idiotic antics like cup stacking, throwing water, and hair colors as far as I am concerned it would be time to cut ties with him.

    Because he’s the only player in MLB and Cardinal history that has fun in the dugout and clubhouse? From Scott Spiezio’s glaring red facial hair, Nick Punto shredding jersey’s, etc. etc. there is a long list of players who display stupid, idiotic antics. Honestly the biggest thing against Carlos is he’s Hispanic. If he was white I really think he’d get crapped on as much and its disgusting how Cardinals fans treat him.

    #78613
    AvatarBob Reed
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    Carlos became an MLB starting pitcher in 2015.

    Here’s a list of pitchers who’ve thrown more innings, with a lower ERA than Carlos, since 2015:

    Kershaw, Scherzer, DeGrom, Kluber, Sale, Greinke, Verlander, Arrieta, and somehow Kyle Hendricks. So that’s the entire list of pitchers who’ve definitely been better than Carlos since he became a starter 4 years ago. Except for the sore thumb inclusion of Hendricks, it’s nothing but stars and superstars. Mostly superstars.

    I don’t blame anyone for hating the dumb hair color. But let’s not equate Carlos’ hair or Yadi’s neck tattoos or Wainwright’s dugout dancing with a lack of commitment to craft. Could Carlos be better? Almost certainly. Is he terrific as is? Also almost certainly.

    We are lucky to have him.

    #78624
    Avatargscottar
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    I really like him in the bullpen. It forces him to focus because every situation is high leverage. To me a back end bullpen of Reyes, Hicks, Miller, and CMart would be lights out game over. We would need another starter though.

    #78650
    AvatarPadsFS
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    stlcard25

    Since becoming a starter, he’s 24th in the majors in innings pitched, 12th in ERA among starters, 2nd in HR/9 allowed, 19th in average allowed, and 21st in FIP. 2018 was really his only injury prone year, which is a shame as he had a pretty good start to the year.

    Given that and that he’s under cheap control for quite a few years, I can’t imagine why they would want to trade him. The “antics” you mention…also known as personality, don’t bother me at all. I like that he enjoys the game. He’s a step from becoming something pretty incredible and I’m not interested in giving that up.

    Exactly!

    #78791
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Former Post-Dispatch columnist Jose de Jesus Ortiz shares his insight on Martinez in his homeland:

    #78949
    AvatarPadsFS
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    Brian, that doesn’t really jive with his attitude off the field that we know a bit about or his stupid, idiotic antics or his hair color. Come on now. Tsunami Waves is just a front I’m sure.

    #78967
    Avatarmudville
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    He still might grow up. At some point he has to. In his way I think he’s just trying to take the edge off for his teammates.

    #78973
    BlackHillsCardBlackHillsCard
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    I really don’t understand the hate some fans have for Carlos. I’m sure it has nothing to do with the fans being old pasty scrooges.

    #78979
    Avatar14NyquisT
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    Careful there big boy.

    #78993
    AvatarPugsleyAddams
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    and somehow Kyle Hendricks

    Priceless, BobbyReed!
    Yeah I’m with the “cut the guy some slack” crowd. Unless he whacks the g/f, kicks the family pooch or God forbid, rides behind the kid while he jogs 4 miles to school for being naughty, I’m in Carlos’ corner. His dugout antics, while somewhat amusing, still has not produced a winner. Many times the most mundane playful gesture can produce big results, such as simply having all of the players in the dugout turn their caps around or having every player grow a beard. I think Carlos is over thinking things, which could be due in large part to being influenced at a very young age by that 2011 winning squad who trained a common ground squirrel to prance out onto the field on cue. Carlos just needs to get back to the basics and he’ll be just fine.

    #79028
    Avatargscottar
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    Hendricks is a very good pitcher. I would take him in my rotation any day.

    #79030
    AvatarPugsleyAddams
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    Hendricks has more pitches than Cal Worthington. And he knows how to use them. But, hitters are starting to get a decent beed on his offerings. He is definitely trending downward.

    #79031
    AvatarCardinals27
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    I am looking forward to our starting staff this year. Hopefully this is the year Reyes stays healthy. I see Martinez, MIkolas, Flaherty, and Wacha at the beginning of the year, and Reyes joining them midseason. What potential!! With Hudson/Gomber/PDL, etc. waiting for their chance at Memphis. (If not in the pen) With Wacha in his Wach year, and Gant out of options, they could be dealt, perhaps in an expanded Jmart deal.

    #79032
    AvatarPugsleyAddams
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    I know it’s a “sore” subject, but what if Reyes misses the vast lion’s share of duty with the Cards yet once again here in ’19 due to injury? If that occurs then you almost have to forget about him moving forward. I’m not advocating dumping him, but anything you get starting in ’20 would have to be perceived as merely a bonus. If he misses this season, then he’s automatically omitted from of my top 10 Cardinal prospects….maybe even top 20. And what a crying shame that would be with such a golden arm.

    #79037
    AvatarBob Reed
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    Thanks for the kind words, Pugs. And a happy new year!

    And funny coincidence, not ten minutes ago I just said more or less the same thing on another thread, re Alex Reyes.

    #79038
    Avatarmspaid
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    Pugsley:

    I agree, this is Reyes’ last chance. If he can’t stay healthy this year then move on to someone else.

    #79049
    AvatarPugsleyAddams
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    And a happy New Year to Bobby and Nathan too. Just how should Reyes be handled? I believe this angle needs to be examined. We may be looking at something truly unique here. Reyes just might be blessed with the absolute perfect repertoire of God given abilities for the sole purpose of pitching a baseball that hitters are unable to make effective contact. Sounds great doesn’t it. But here’s the problem……. unfortunately this “gift” that Reyes possess’ may have an extremely short shelf life. It just may not be physically possible for Reyes to stay healthy. To clarify, it’s not poor mechanics we are dealing with here, but rather ones of pure perfection. So perfect that the human body is unable to recognize or support them for any kind of duration.

    #79080
    Avatargscottar
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    I know we are getting off topic from CMart, but as for Reyes, it may be that he ends up better suited for the bullpen. He wouldn’t be the first young promising starter to come up but never stay healthy enough to be in the rotation only to get shifted to the pen. Two that come to mind are Jason Isringhausen and Kerry Wood.

    #79084
    AvatarPadsFS
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    I could see Mikolas having a drop in production. But I could see Martinez really breaking out this year.

    #79088
    AvatarNigel T
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    Carlos is number one if everyone pitches up to their potential. Reyes is his biggest threat, but I don’t count him as a part of the rotation.

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