2018 Reg Seas Game #23 – vs. Mets – Wed 4/25

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Viewing 15 posts - 26 through 40 (of 40 total)
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  • #50144
    jj-cf-stljj-cf-stl
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    wacha’s slash line allowed after 4 IP…
    .250 / .294 / .250 / .544 on a .364 BAbip

    #50146
    colhuskercolhusker
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    Free

    Wacha had a great start tonight.

    #50147
    Avatarwagee12
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    LOL, I have forgotten now, but who was the guy on this board that wanted to trade Wacha for the entire calendar year of 2017??

    #50151
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    The Cards win 9-1 to even the series at 1-1 and improve their season record to 14-9.

    #50154
    AvatarLoganAlpha30X7
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    It does seem funny that Wacha is the pitcher that some here want to trade every time that we turn around but so far he’s our best pitcher…

    #50157
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    I would say that Cmart has been our best pitcher so far, but Wacha has held his own. I would take 6 innings a Starr at mid 3s ERA from him and be satisfied.

    #50159
    AvatarCariocaCardinal
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    2018 is a big year for Wacha. The pre 2018 Wacha is basically worthless in baseball terms – see how the Rays basically had to give Jake Ordozzi away. If he doesnt step up in 2018 he wont be traded. No one will want his $9-$10 million salary. He will most likely be non tendered. If he has a decent 2018 the Cards will have to decide if they can get enough for him to make him worth trading or just keep him for one more year before he becomes a FA.

    #50165
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    I don’t get the “Wacha is worthless” story line. Let’s put some numbers on the page.

    Here are his fWARs as a major leaguer:
    2014: 2.0
    2015: 2.3
    2016: 1.9
    2017: 3.2 (2nd to Carlos Martinez at 3.3)

    Not everyone can be a #1.

    According to Fangraphs, one WAR last season across MLB was worth $8 million. So the Cards received $25.6 million in value from Wacha in 2017.

    On the other hand, Jake Odorizzi’s fWAR last season was 0.1. Maybe that is why he was traded and fetched little in return. That and the fact the Rays were dumping payroll left and right.

    Sure, if Wacha has a year like Odorizzi’s 2017, he could be vulnerable, but what in his history or recent performance suggests that is ahead? More than likely, he continues to be productive, and isn’t going to be non-tendered.

    P.S. If Wacha’s velo is up, there could be upside. I did not dig into the numbers in detail, but his first inning Ks last night were on 96 and 97 mph pitches.

    #50169
    AvatarBrianpnoonan
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    While I completely disagree with the 25.6 million number value on wacha (it is probably closer to 10 or so due to the exponential nature of WAR value) I fully agree he is anything but worthless.

    He is solid and above average. Nothing wrong with that and people who take the “worthless” stance are the same ones who demand superstars at every position.

    They are fools and destructive personalities and that’s on a good day.

    #50171
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Whoa, please stop with personal remarks about other posters. We disagree in a civil manner here. Thanks.

    #50175
    AvatarCariocaCardinal
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    Brianpnoonan, I am the one that made the “worthless” comment. You are saying I demand a superstar at every position? Please support that comment. You will unlikely find one post of mine supporting that the team even needs an upgrade at any particular position, yet alone a superstar. It is extremely rare I even propose or endorse any trade proposal. (I have commented that we another power bat and have endorsed going after Donaldson) I also have commented on some trades I dont like though. If you want to discuss the “worthless” comment, I am more than happy to discuss my reasoning. However, doing that with someone who invents things that I have said would seem like a wasteful effort.

    #50179
    thejagerthejager
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    Wacha is doing well…i love how solid he is…if he turned into a long term Lance Lynn type i’d be very happy…but as someone else said 2018 is a big year for him to prove he can be durable and good

    as for trading him….i personally see him as the tradeable asset from our rotation prospects going forward mostly because of the other guys who are coming or already here…Wacha is a FA after next year…we either have to pay him or let him go…trading him now probably brings us a better return if we are going to move on from him after 2019

    2019 we lose Waino but gain Flaherty or Reyes
    2020 we lose Mikolas and potentially Wacha and gain Flaherty or Reyes as well as Gant Hudson Gomber etc.

    there is room for him if we want to re-sign him…and if we dealt him this year or next we would be fine as well

    but the glut of SPs is only going to get worse unless we start trading them…

    I want Wacha to be awesome, he has always had it in him…and maybe finally he is over his shoulder issues and can get back to looking like that kid who wowed us all when he showed up

    #50183
    ambill10ambill10
    Participant

    I wonder how much this last offseason experience for free agent pitchers will impact both the club and player perception of market value for a pitcher like Wacha?

    #50186
    AvatarBrianpnoonan
    Participant

    Free

    Invent things you’ve said?

    You said it. And he is a solid player. Perfect? Nope. But decent.

    A certain other poster can’t see that Rosenthal was solid at worst and people called him out for it (rightly).

    And nate is king of such exaggerations.

    You’re wrong. That’s fine. You’ve called me out for things too and I’ve been wrong.

    Hell we’ve all had venting moments I’m good with that (and good with you regardless). But don’t come after me because you had a moment and I called you on it — I sure as heck could have done the same thing before and mostly haven’t.

    #50188
    AvatarCariocaCardinal
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    My argument Brianp is not with you saying that you think I am wrong but with you saying I have said or even implied that we need a superstar at every position. This is a false statement that rather than recognizing your error, you are choosing to double down on.

    And you have done nothing to convince me that I am wrong on the Wacha/Ordozzi similar worth idea. Wacha may have been better last year, but depending on your stat, Ordozzi had been better the 2 previous years.

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