April 25, 2018 at 8:53 pm #50144jj-cf-stlParticipantPaid - Annual
wacha’s slash line allowed after 4 IP…
.250 / .294 / .250 / .544 on a .364 BAbipApril 25, 2018 at 9:50 pm #50146colhuskerParticipantFree
Wacha had a great start tonight.April 25, 2018 at 9:56 pm #50147wagee12Participant
LOL, I have forgotten now, but who was the guy on this board that wanted to trade Wacha for the entire calendar year of 2017??April 25, 2018 at 10:03 pm #50151
The Cards win 9-1 to even the series at 1-1 and improve their season record to 14-9.April 25, 2018 at 10:42 pm #50154LoganAlpha30X7ParticipantFree
It does seem funny that Wacha is the pitcher that some here want to trade every time that we turn around but so far he’s our best pitcher…April 26, 2018 at 3:37 am #50157stlcard25ParticipantPaid - Annual
I would say that Cmart has been our best pitcher so far, but Wacha has held his own. I would take 6 innings a Starr at mid 3s ERA from him and be satisfied.April 26, 2018 at 6:52 am #50159
2018 is a big year for Wacha. The pre 2018 Wacha is basically worthless in baseball terms – see how the Rays basically had to give Jake Ordozzi away. If he doesnt step up in 2018 he wont be traded. No one will want his $9-$10 million salary. He will most likely be non tendered. If he has a decent 2018 the Cards will have to decide if they can get enough for him to make him worth trading or just keep him for one more year before he becomes a FA.April 26, 2018 at 7:25 am #50165
I don’t get the “Wacha is worthless” story line. Let’s put some numbers on the page.
Here are his fWARs as a major leaguer:
2017: 3.2 (2nd to Carlos Martinez at 3.3)
Not everyone can be a #1.
According to Fangraphs, one WAR last season across MLB was worth $8 million. So the Cards received $25.6 million in value from Wacha in 2017.
On the other hand, Jake Odorizzi’s fWAR last season was 0.1. Maybe that is why he was traded and fetched little in return. That and the fact the Rays were dumping payroll left and right.
Sure, if Wacha has a year like Odorizzi’s 2017, he could be vulnerable, but what in his history or recent performance suggests that is ahead? More than likely, he continues to be productive, and isn’t going to be non-tendered.
P.S. If Wacha’s velo is up, there could be upside. I did not dig into the numbers in detail, but his first inning Ks last night were on 96 and 97 mph pitches.April 26, 2018 at 8:03 am #50169BrianpnoonanParticipantFree
While I completely disagree with the 25.6 million number value on wacha (it is probably closer to 10 or so due to the exponential nature of WAR value) I fully agree he is anything but worthless.
He is solid and above average. Nothing wrong with that and people who take the “worthless” stance are the same ones who demand superstars at every position.
They are fools and destructive personalities and that’s on a good day.April 26, 2018 at 8:33 am #50171
Whoa, please stop with personal remarks about other posters. We disagree in a civil manner here. Thanks.April 26, 2018 at 9:36 am #50175
Brianpnoonan, I am the one that made the “worthless” comment. You are saying I demand a superstar at every position? Please support that comment. You will unlikely find one post of mine supporting that the team even needs an upgrade at any particular position, yet alone a superstar. It is extremely rare I even propose or endorse any trade proposal. (I have commented that we another power bat and have endorsed going after Donaldson) I also have commented on some trades I dont like though. If you want to discuss the “worthless” comment, I am more than happy to discuss my reasoning. However, doing that with someone who invents things that I have said would seem like a wasteful effort.April 26, 2018 at 9:45 am #50179thejagerParticipantPaid - Annual
Wacha is doing well…i love how solid he is…if he turned into a long term Lance Lynn type i’d be very happy…but as someone else said 2018 is a big year for him to prove he can be durable and good
as for trading him….i personally see him as the tradeable asset from our rotation prospects going forward mostly because of the other guys who are coming or already here…Wacha is a FA after next year…we either have to pay him or let him go…trading him now probably brings us a better return if we are going to move on from him after 2019
2019 we lose Waino but gain Flaherty or Reyes
2020 we lose Mikolas and potentially Wacha and gain Flaherty or Reyes as well as Gant Hudson Gomber etc.
there is room for him if we want to re-sign him…and if we dealt him this year or next we would be fine as well
but the glut of SPs is only going to get worse unless we start trading them…
I want Wacha to be awesome, he has always had it in him…and maybe finally he is over his shoulder issues and can get back to looking like that kid who wowed us all when he showed upApril 26, 2018 at 9:55 am #50183ambill10Participant
I wonder how much this last offseason experience for free agent pitchers will impact both the club and player perception of market value for a pitcher like Wacha?April 26, 2018 at 10:08 am #50186BrianpnoonanParticipantFree
Invent things you’ve said?
You said it. And he is a solid player. Perfect? Nope. But decent.
A certain other poster can’t see that Rosenthal was solid at worst and people called him out for it (rightly).
And nate is king of such exaggerations.
You’re wrong. That’s fine. You’ve called me out for things too and I’ve been wrong.
Hell we’ve all had venting moments I’m good with that (and good with you regardless). But don’t come after me because you had a moment and I called you on it — I sure as heck could have done the same thing before and mostly haven’t.April 26, 2018 at 10:38 am #50188
My argument Brianp is not with you saying that you think I am wrong but with you saying I have said or even implied that we need a superstar at every position. This is a false statement that rather than recognizing your error, you are choosing to double down on.
And you have done nothing to convince me that I am wrong on the Wacha/Ordozzi similar worth idea. Wacha may have been better last year, but depending on your stat, Ordozzi had been better the 2 previous years.
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