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I didn’t see any threads devoted to this and since it seems worthy of its own thread I thought I would get one started. My apologies if its being debated elsewhere. I looked through a couple of threads and didn’t see anything about it so I fired away.
r/Esteemed Rat
This should be “torn UCL.” It’s a blow to the bullpen for sure. Coming back to back with the Reyes setback, this has been a devastating stretch. So who’s up next? Is anyone in Memphis worth calling up? Will Junior Fernandez get added to the 40 man?
This might be the impetus for a bullpen trade. Will Smith would be costly and a rental. Brad Hand might be available and he would cost even more, but come with control beyond this year.
Maybe they decide to just go with the bullpen they have, which has been fairly good. Still, it’s a bad break for Mr Hicks, who has been better this year than last. He might not pitch til 2021.
Yeah stlcard25, my mistake, it should be torn UCL.
Can a Moderator change the subject title to UCL?
r/Esteemed Rat <~~~~who wasn’t so esteemed here
I’m not an exercise physiologist, but it seems like 95-98 MPH would place a lot less stress on the body than 99-103 MPH.
Maybe the Cards should seriously consider returning Jordan Hicks to a starting role in the future, where he’ll be forced to pace himself, i.e., take something off that fastball and take some pressure off that valuable right elbow & shoulder.
Good luck, Jordan.
Did anybody out there not suspect this was coming? A young guy that throws extremely hard (hardest thrower in the game). He had UCL tear and TJ surgery written all over him. I told somebody last year that no later than 2020 he will be down with TJ surgery.
May as well get it over with and hope he can return in 2021.
r/Esteemed Rat
I actually shared the Cardinals tweet about this on the Sunday game thread and it received a few comments.
Bobby and I have been on the same page regarding Jordan Hicks since early last season. When you have a young guy and all the hype is about how hard he throws, then you put him out there in situations where you are telling him to throw his arm off, then it should be no surprise this is the result.
Sorry to see this happen and I hope the club is smarter in working with him through surgery and recovery than their recent thinking has been regarding Mr. Hicks.
In a more broad scope, I believe we are getting to a point in MLB like big-time football. The human body can only take so much physical stress and strain. While guys may be able to throw harder than ever for awhile, it is likely not sustainable to see them continue to push that needle on the speed gun ever higher.
Did anybody out there not suspect this was coming? A young guy that throws extremely hard (hardest thrower in the game). He had UCL tear and TJ surgery written all over him. I told somebody last year that no later than 2020 he will be down with TJ surgery.
May as well get it over with and hope he can return in 2021.
r/Esteemed Rat
It was unfortunately just a matter of time. He has a very long road ahead. The good news is he didn’t have the mileage on his arm that Trevor Rosenthal had on his so there is a better than average chance he can return from this down the road and be ok.
What Texascard said, when you jack it up there that hard every time bad things will happen. See a lot more injuries due to guys throwing 95 every pitch. Give me Tudor, inside, outside, up and down at 80-85.
Dang-it there goes our closer. That really hurts. Seems like this year he was having success with other pitches too like a curve, slider and change up. Saw a couple games when he walked some batters from overthrowing his pitches to get that velocity. Having that kind ofspeed is not good if you can’t control where its gonna go. Seems like a fuller repotoire and having that velocity on occasion would be better. And not burn out your carreer.
As has been mentioned, Memphis offers little as a replacement for Hicks, as the Redbird bullpen has been the equivalent of adding gasoline to a fire. Leone seems like a poor choice, as he has not pitched well in 2019. The choices are limited, but Fernandez seems likely to at least get moved to AAA, if not the bog club. Other options are the return of Helsley or Mayers, but their readiness for return seems very questionable. Perhaps a trade could bring in a veteran reliever.
While this is really bad news for Hicks I have to say that if one area of our team could handle this blow it is the bullpen. I still think it is a strong unit. CMart, Gant, Miller, and Brebbia is not that bad. And how about Gallegos?? I wouldn’t hesitate to give the 8th or 9th inning to his guy. He is nails. While Shreve was a bust Gallegos is doing his part to balance the scales on the Voit trade.
It should be no surprise if Leone is the choice for now since he is on the 40 man already. The path of least resistance is usually the easiest choice although we all know that Leone has been terrible this year.
Helsley might be a good option when he is healthy but I think we need to look outside the organization before July 31. My number one choice would be Brad Hand but Cleveland may not be a seller since they are in the wild card race. Smith and Watson of the Giants are more likely to be trade candidates but they are just rentals.
My number one choice would be Brad Hand but Cleveland may not be a seller since they are in the wild card race
I thought so too but have you noticed his stats so far this year? The counting stats are elite but the dark clouds loom. His velocity is down over a mph, his ground ball rate dropped from >40% to 19.1% (not a typo) while his HR/fly ball is an unsustainable 3.4%. He’s stranded over 90% of runners and the BABIP is in the .260s. All that to say…he probably will still be good when the regression comes but perhaps not worth the elite package of prospects it will cost to get him.
Yes his traditional stats are elite (1.05 era and 22/22 save opportunities) but the stats that I look at the most for pitchers are batting avg. against and WHIP. Hand’s batting avg against is .161 and his WHIP is .79. Both of those are very elite. I would take this guy in a heartbeat even though the price would be high.
Again, probably a moot point unless the Indians fall out of the wild card race.
In news TCN members had a partial preview of early…
Maybe this guy should see more of the 9th inning…
Giovanny Gallegos in June:
11.2 IP
13 K's
0 BB's
0.00 ERA#stlcards— Tom Ackerman (@Ackerman1120) June 25, 2019
Very sorry to hear on my fellow Houstonian as this is real bad news. I see Leone is back…..WHY ???????? He is just awful.
Here’s hoping the surgery goes down tomorrow and not Thursday, because, well, I don’t want to speculate on what would happen if they are off on this report.
sucks for Jordan…when i saw the replay my first reaction was elbow, and tJ surgery…when all the sources from the FO and broadcasts said not a big deal and no MRI and nothign to worry about…i was so happy to be wrong….then…it is UCL and now TJ…i hate being right sometimes
so we should pretty much not consider him an option until 2021, even if he comes back in a year they will baby him back in…le’s hope it goes better than how Reyes has come back from TJ
CMart can hold it down, Gant and Miller help out, and Gallegos moves upa rung on the ladder…
I think Junior Fernandez is going to be up soon if Leone struggles again…
I still think we need another solid LHRP for the pen, Watson, Smith, Hand, Diekman, etc etc
but it does look like we have some potential reinforcements from the minors, some more appealing than others…
-Helsley and Mayers and Reyes…all hurt but could be major impact relievers
-Leone, Cecil vets havent pitched well but could get it turned around…they could still be helpful
-Junior Fernandez,…typical quick rising prospect with a big arm and plenty to prove…could be impact
-Ponce, Gomber, Woodford…starters who can help if desiredGomber is still on the IL with arm fatigue that doesn’t look positive for him coming back any time soon.
Isnt it amazing how many young pitchers are babied up through the minor leagues to avoid injury. Their pitch counts are limited, their days are limited, their innings are limited, etc, etc. All in an effort to avoid injury. Yet, seemingly it just happens so much of the time.
I think its like Herzog said once. Players should drink more beer and eat more hot dogs to avoid all of these injuries.
r/Esteemed Rat <~~~~who has drank some beer and ate some hot dogs in his time
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