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The Cardinals are not renewing the contracts of pitching coach Derek Lilliquist and bullpen coach Blaise Ilsley for 2018.
Wow, not a good sign for MM. I think a message is being sent that he better right the ship in 2018 or else.
THat is really to bad the Cards have to put up with a below average manager…was bad hire from get go
It would be nice if posters would weigh our manager’s good and bad points instead of mindlessly bashing him at every opportunity.
He can’t manage a bullpen. How’s that for starters!
He does seems to be a players manager. That could be a gift and a curse when it comes down to his job security.
I didn’t see Lilliquist as an issue. I don’t think he and Matheny always saw eye to eye. One other thing to consider is he was technically brought in under Larussa. I wish him well and I think whatever team picks him up will have an asset in the dugout.
Management is obviously changing Matheny’s direct reports, to see if that helps the club break out of the mediocrity. If the trend line continues to be flat or downward, Mike will be gone sometime in 2018.
I expect Mabry will be let go as well. Tough business, although field personnel are highly compensated and work under a contract, which usually is covered if early termination occurs. That is a better gig than most of corporate America.
I had cooled on Lilliquist. Too many injuries. Not much growth by guys like Wacha and Martinez. Critical to get someone like Rhighetti or the guy at Pittsburgh that seem to get a lot out of pitchers and revitalize guys that have stalled with other teams. Cub guy seems to be pretty good too.
I am also not a fan of Mabry. Sure he is a nice guy but we are too hit and miss offensively and players have poor plate discipline. Believe we have better hitting coaches in the system.
Sometimes dumping assistants is a sign that the top guy is on his last legs but not always. Management could be forcing Matheny’s hand by dropping his assistants but that is only speculation if there is not solid info that they are taking over his area of responsibility.
surprising to me…but makes me wonder how much of Matheny depended on Lilly to make those calls about use of the bullpen…i doubt MM threw Lilly under the bus but Lilly always seemed to be a guy who had an opinion and didnt waiver…which can be good and bad…
still this was not the first move i expected…
MM is definitely in make the playoffs or else for 2018 mode
Im guessing Mabry is with MM until the end…they might bring up CLapp for a spot jsut to make sure he doesnt get lured away in case MM is gone after next year as i think theyd definitely put Clapp in the manager spot..
I’m wondering if Chris Carpenter is going to be hired as a coach next year. Chris was in the dugout during the last series in Pittsburgh. You could tell that he and Matheny get along well.
On another note Jenifer Langsoch said during an interview on ‘The Turn’ radio show on St. Louis FM 101.1 that neither coach was ‘receptive to advanced metrics’. Here’s the link to the interview:
My quick take on today’s moves.
https://thecardinalnation.com/cardinals-fire-pitching-coaches-lilliquist-and-ilsley/
Shildt has managed in the Cardinal system for years and has several championships under his belt. Why would Clapp move ahead of him. Clapp did a nice job at Memphis this year but had oodles of talent even after all of the callups.
Speaking of bullpen use, Clapp had a 3-1 lead behind Hudson in the AAA championship game and for whatever reason pulled him in the 4th and put in Josh Zeid with his 6.00+ ERA and sure enough Zeid was torched and Memphis never recovered.
Sooner I made the same comments to Brian on twitter. Why would Clapp put in Zeid in that situation knowing he hadn’t been good all season. Many of us (myself included) complain about Matheny’s bullpen management and Clapp pulled a very similar move. That didn’t and doesn’t sit well with me.
The advanced metrics comment bothers me because it seems Matheny wasn’t receptive of advanced metrics either. If he was why did he keep starting Fowler in center field and why would he bring in a reliever that would be disadvantaged? Not buying that.
good question Sooner..i have been thinking the same thing…all i have heard is that he Memphis pitching coach will definitely be in the mix
Mo made it clear the kind of guy he wants and familiarity was not the criteria. Unless any of the minor league coaches bucked the prevailing thinking and truly embraced the data provided by baseball ops, my view is that the new PC will come from the outside. It seems overdue for some fresh voices on the staff, anyway, as the Cards aim to make up ground in their in-game use of information, leading to better pitching decisions.
i agree that i think we should look outside…i just remember reading somewhere that the Memphis PC was going to be considered…and it may have said something like “highly” considered or something along those lines… it coudl be posturing, but it is what it is
Of course, all the right things were said about internal candidates – as anyone would expect them to do.
However, Mo’s closing comment was, “This is a unique spot. We have to get this right.”
My interpretation is they will not take the “low hanging fruit”. This is Girsch’s first big hire and it will tell us a lot. Eversgerd feels like the kind of safe candidate Mo would have hired in the past.
@Sooner – former Tampa Rays pitching coach Jim Hickey is one rumored candidate for Cards
“But expect him to land a big-time gig, with the Cardinals and Mets already rumored…”
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