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This team desperately needs to develop or acquire a middle of the bat for the future of the team’s success for the next 3 or so years. The team has multiple top of the order options with Nootbaar, Donovan, Wetherholt. Defensive wizz’s in Winn and Scott for up the middle. But the team doesn’t have anyone to sit in the middle of the order and be a reliable run producer.
Internally, the team has Gorman, Walker, and Burleson as options and I don’t see any middle of the order bats in the minors that will play for the team within the next 3 years. That could change based off the draft, but the top of the draft doesn’t look to great power options in my view. Herrera is the guy that may be the dark horse candidate.
The other options are to go outside the org and try to obtain a free agent bat or a trade, but trading for a middle of the order bat is difficult. I’m unsure if the team would get a free agent at this point. Contreras is someone I think will be a middle of the order bat for this year and next (his performance will pick up), but that only gives us one out of 3 we really need.
Who do readers see as the best options for the middle of the order? Any candidates I didn’t list? Which ones do you favor?
Going into the options I laid out, trying to look at each one and see if they are improving to get to that point. The internal options all obviously need improvements to get there.
Nolan Gorman – Trending Up
Gorman has the tools and prior success that he likely has the best odds of being a solid middle of the order bat. Obvious strikeout issues even when he is on, but he has 40 HR power upshot. Gorman’s issue in my opinion is purely confidence based from watching him. In 2025, he has shown improvements overall but still gets into some PAs where he swings at whatever is thrown. The thing I am looking for out of Gorman is improving his contact % and swing decisions. So far he has done that, but obviously a small sample size so far. Gorman’s outside zone swing % has improved from a career rate of 29.2% to 22.4% (above average actually). Gorman’s zone contact % has actually shown improvement as well from a career rate of 74.0% to 88.0%. His career rate is very bad while the current numbers so far are good. If he can keep up the improvements, he can be a good cleanup bat type.Jordan Walker – Trending Down
Walker looked much better the 1st 2 weeks of the year and taking much better PAs. However, he has been much worse lately and swinging at everything. Walker has similar problems to Gorman and what he needs to do to become a middle of the order bat is to improve his plate discipline and contact rate. So far, Walker is not doing that this year though overall. He is running a 35.5% outside zone swing % and a zone contact % of 79.8%. Walker’s bat speed is amazing, but he really needs to take better PAs. At least on the positive side Walker has significantly improved his defense. Hopefully he can keep that up and make similar improvements on the offensive side.Alec Burleson – Trending Down
Burleson is the one I feel the least confident about as he simply doesn’t hit for enough power and is at the bottom of the defensive spectrum if you could even say DH is on it. To be a full time DH, you need to show you can hit. Burleson had a good 1st half last year, but has been very cold since. Burly is interesting in that he hardly strikes out, but he swings at absolutely everything. He just has good enough contact skills to make contact and the PA hardly goes more than 3 pitches in to even get to the point of being able to strike out. His outside zone swing % has actually went up from a career of 36.1% to 38.2%. His zone contact % for his career is 88.2 % which is plus and why he doesn’t K. However, he really needs to improve his approach to be more selective and find a better pitch to hit that he can do damage with.Ivan Herrera – Trending Up
Herrera was not someone I would have picked for this a year ago, but his underlying statcast data looks great and his season beginning look great as well, but unfortunately he got hurt. Herrera can be very valuable if he can improve his arm enough to not be as much of a liability behind the plate, but his framing and blocking are at least average. Offensively, he likely doesn’t have 30 HR potential, but he should have enough pop to hit 20 some year with a good amount of doubles. Not a #4, but more #5 or #6. Herrera is really good about making good contact rates (87.0%) and his swing decisions are good. He has a line drive focused approach and consistently makes hard contact. I think the question for Herrera is can he keep up the offensive numbers and show enough doubles with some HR power. If he sticks at C, the bar isn’t as high, but he is more athletic than most C and could play a reasonable LF. I imagine. His bat has to play quite up to be a 1B/DH option with the top 30 percentile outcome for his bat to stay valuable at those positions.I would be happy if even 1 of the guys I listed became a true middle of the order bat. 2 would help the team be in playoff contention for a few years. Baseball is an unpredictable game though so we will see if any of them show they can be solid players. I will predict that Gorman becomes a true #4, but defensively I think he shows he needs to be a 1B / DH long term and doesn’t need to be at 2B for sure and I don’t think he is a good 3B either. Herrera I think fits into more of a good #6/7 type rather than true middle of the order. Burly I’m unsure if he sticks with the team more than a couple of years and isn’t squeezed off the roster soon. Walker is the big wild card for me. He has spent so much time on defensive improvements it likely came at the cost of offensive improvements and he is still 22 so plenty of time to improve. I don’t think it works out for Walker at this point as he makes bad swing decisions and doesn’t make great contact and when he does, it is a ground ball too frequently.
All jokes aside, this is a more than worthy topic. This team has no one on the roster who the opposition is frightened to work to. Opposing pitchers routinely go right after every bat in the Cardinal order. Most good teams have at least two bats in their lineup that fall into the category of menacing and I can’t find a solitary one of those sort of bats on the 26 man. The teeth of this Redbird’s batting order is entirely toothless.
Anyone hanging his cap on Gorman as the bat that will extract this team from the bog that is sucking us under is in for a long, uncomfortable season.
Great topic. The guys who are obviously the closest are here playing. This team is NOT going to contend for anything. So we should see all of them get plenty of at bats. By the end of the season, we should be able to make a decision going forward to 26-27.
I have the most faith in Walker. He came to the bigs completely unprepared for any phase of the game. But he has the most talent and he proved he can learn with his huge defensive improvements. I think by the end of the year we will see the guy we need sitting in the middle of the oeder.
Gorman maybe but I have less faith that he can be a high enough obp guy to earn one of those places. Same with Herrera. Although I give Herrera a better chance. Burleson may not make it through the year. His swing looks messed up and that’s all he had.
The guy in the system that is a dark horse for the future is Chase Davis. He seems to progress but not fast enough for Shady to jump on his bandwagon. I like him.
We have a deluge of catchers and middle infielders. Our best bet is to trade from that surplus and our expiring fa contracts. I have to go to work so someone else can come up with suggestions on whom that my be? Or do we go strictly with prospects?Arenado and Contreras are drawing 50mil this season. They are both under contract thru 2027. They may be on the roster longer than ALL the names mentioned above.
If we are going to become like the Rays, you can forget concepts like MOTO bats. Just a bunch of guys who will be passing through for a few years, then traded for prospects.
I just don’t get the fascination of Nolan Gorman as a middle of the lineup guy! He has already had almost 1100 official plate appearances! He strikes out 38% of the time and is batting 222! It is difficult if not impossible to find any other player this century with numbers like that to start a career who became middle of the order guys!
The only other hitter I can come up with is Jose Bautista! He had similar number his first 1000 at bats although he batted higher (245) and struck out less (around 30%)
Please help me with some others that have done as poorly and then became very good! If no one can then we are looking at a struck by lightning situation as far as Gorman is concerned!
Give him the rest of this year, sure, to prove himself but if the current numbers persist please don’t bring him back next year with the idea to give him another year to prove himself!
Steve60 – Compare Gorman’s OPS his first three years with Walker, Burleson & Baker. Is Gorman better than those three, or worse?
So, of those four, in what order would you cut them loose from the team?
LACard, can you name one player, just one, who started his career with 1100 at bats who Struck out 38% of the time and was batting 222, who suddenly became a middle of the order semi star guy! I don’t think you can because they don’t exist!
So IMO Baker is a total unknown! He has batted in mlb only 150 times! Don’t even know why he would be on this list?
Walker, has only batted 650 times! His OPS is about tbe same as Gorman, but Gorman has over 450 more plate appearances! I don’t like Walker but he should have more rope than Gorman!
Burleson is more comparable to Gorman than the other IMO because he has close to 1000 at bats! Yes his OPS is lower but so is his K rate! He makes contact! He will always hit for a higher avg than Gorman!
So in conclusion I don’t think any of these 4 will ever bat 3,4 or 5 for a championship level contender! I think Burleson might bat 2 or 6 or 7 for one! The one I’m most sure about is Gorman! Unless he just wakes up one day and becomes a totally different guy he is not gonna ever be a middle of the order bat!
I will add that in defense of Walker, he is only 22.
Unfortunately, the Cardinals chose to develop him at the major league level rather than in the minor leagues, because they didn’t want to spend $5 million or so on a journeyman outfielder who could provide similar or better production while Walker was learning how to play the outfield and hit in the minor leagues.
So IMO Baker is a total unknown! He has batted in mlb only 150 times! Don’t even know why he would be on this list?
Baker is 28. He is older than each of the other players. What does that tell you about his prospects?
Walker, has only batted 650 times! His OPS is about tbe same as Gorman, but Gorman has over 450 more plate appearances! I don’t like Walker but he should have more rope than Gorman!
Walker has 728 plate appearances. Yes, he has one less season in the majors, but look at his trend line. Gorman’s floor is higher, Gorman’s ceiling is higher.
What all 4 of these players have in common is tbey are examples of a failed organization when it comes to finding and developing players! Gorman’s ceiling is only higher to you because you want it to be! When we start winning again none of these 4 players will be a part of it IMO!
Forsch31, as of today Gorman has 1081 at bats and has struck out 410 times! That is 37.9 % of the time!
That is not how K% is figured. It is based on plate appearances. His career K% is less than what you have presented and is currently around 25% this year. That is an improvement. I am still concerned about Gorman’s K rate, however, I am willing to see if he can keep it at 25% or lower this year.
If you want to use plate appearances it is still 34% which is an unsustainable rate! Listen I hope Gorman becomes the greatest power hitter of his generation and hits 45 homers a year, but that is unlikely at best to happen! Even Reggie Jackson who is the greatest K’er ever IMO only struck out 24% of the time using PA! Sure give him another year! By that time his PA will be pushing 1500! If he is still K’ing at an over 30% rate and hitting less than 220 lets move on!
We don’t currently have a MOTO bat nor do we have one on the horizon. It will have to come from the outside. The question is when? If the Cardinals feel like they are ready to compete in 2026 then they will have to fork over a big contract on someone. If they are still in transition mode then they will probably bargain bin shop on an aging vet on a short term deal.
Gorman and Walker are 1st round investments. Burly and Baker are 2nd rounders.
It’s Mo’s roster he has built, and the owner has spent 5mil in the last 14 months. Move on to who?Carlson and O’Neill received plenty of leash for the same investment, and lack of depth, reasons.
Mo looked much better w/Pujols, Molina and Wainwright coming from the farm. His last hurrah is off to a rocky start.
Move on to trying to put winning players on the field! Continuing to throw the same players out there year after year knowing they can’t produce is insanity IMO! We keep talking on this forum about a reset! How? Still have the same owner, same GM, same manager and for the most part the same players! This lineup looks remarkably similar to last years and the year before! Okay let’s give them another year! We have some players I think we can build around
Nootbar, Scott, Winn, Donovan, Werherholt, Saggese, maybe Davis!If this group ends up being as bad as they could be (4th or 5th with 90+ losses)
I dog gone sure hope we don’t put Gorman and Walker and Burleson Contreras and Others back out there in 2026 and say “ we are gonna give them this year to see what they can do” We have done that already!
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