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Would it be a good exercise to list the players that are “on the bubble”
to try to figure out who might go and who might stay over the off season? Along with the salary impact?Goldy
Lynn
GibsonMikolas
Gray
Fedde
Matz
Helsley
Arenado
ContrerasIf Goldy is gone, and the options on Lynn and Gibson aren’t exercised, that reduces payroll by $48 million. There will be increases with the 6 arbitration eligible players.
Are higher priced guys going to be traded to shave even more salary and bring in some younger players at either the major league level or high minors?
Do we dare trade Gray and Helsley if we still want to be competitive in 2025? If we trade Gray, do we keep Gibson? If we trade Helsley, who will be the closer?
Hope this won’t be a redundant thread to How To Fix The Cardinals.
I don’t believe they are trying to be competitive in 2025. They’ve said as much. It seems to be a reasonable assumption that any of the contracts you listed are available. Especially if they offer any return at all. Mikolas and Matz would be most likely to stay. They aren’t going to pay them to play elsewhere Especially since someone will be needed to take some innings.
Edit-I dont think they bring back Gibson Goldy or Lance.They won’t be (or try to be) next year.
They should sell every expensive asset (most aren’t good) and try to build up organizational depth.
See what they’ve got.
And flush the Mo/Oli taste away after the year. It isn’t working at all.
Sonny Gray is good enough but expensive.
Ryan Helsley is an asset for a competitor. Use him to (wisely) build.
Keep an affordable Fedde to eat innings. Sell him at the trade deadline if it makes sense.It won’t make any difference who goes and who stays. The only way this team has a sliver of a chance to be comptitive in ’25 is to sign a player, any player, named Manny. The game is constantly changing, but having a Manny on the roster continues to be the key to bonus baseball in Oct.
It takes two to tango, so on the lower list it depends on what we could get in return. Fede probably stays, but the others are dependent on return. Since we would be happy dealing any o them, we are at a disadvantage and will probably not get much value back. So my guess is most will be here next year, with maybe one guy able to generate enough interest that we deal him.
The free agents are gone. Personally I might bring Gibson back if we can move on from Mikolas. But the chances of the latter happening are well below 50%.
All the contracts will be done before the Cardinals will potentially be competitive again, so no reason to retain any of them. Helsley will become too expensive by then, so no reason to retain him.
Mo brought in a bunch of upper level pitchers a year and a half ago, let them man the rotation along with Pallante, McGreevy and whoever else – Graceffo, Liberatore, Hence, the AFL guys. Beam Mathews up by Memorial Day.
https://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2024/10/11/24267199/4-signs-of-hope-during-the-cardinals-rebuild
This is a good article not just click bait.
Being willing to trade someone and actually doing it are two different things. They arent going to trade someone if they are eating most of the contract. I doubt they resign anyone or keep any team options. But the problem is we dont really know what is going on behind the scenes, its all just speculation. Its a good question so im not negative on the thread. I think arenado could possibly bring us some value in a trade if a team is willing to take on the contract. Same with gray though his injury or perceived injury at end of season could hurt in that regard. Milkolas and matz we are probably stuck with.
My guess is, of that list of players (other than Goldschmidt who is already gone), all will be ‘on the block’ so to speak and that roughly half will be able to be dealt with terms the Cardinals can live with.
Mikolas and Matz are obviously the two toughest to move.
Others like Gray have full no trade clauses and so add a third cog to any negotiation.
The good players will probably be gone and the crappy ones will end up sticking around is what I think actually happens.
If the Cardinals operate on the idea of saving money first, they will be stuck with crappy players. I hope they operate on the idea of getting rid of crappy players and take whatever money savings they can get.
Of the players who who will be gone I would say it will be:
Goldy
Gibson
Lynn
Kittredge
Middleton
Carp
Helsey
And one of Gray, Arenado, and Contreras. I think it will be difficult to move all three.I don’t see any reason to think about how they do a rebuild and still try to build a winning team. Get that out of your mind. They are not going to be a winning team in 2025 and probably not 2026. This is a rebuild and something that Cardinal fans have not experienced in a long time but is something that is necessary IMO.
If the young core all start producing like Winn the team would not only win they would probably make and advance in the playoffs – but that is a BIG ask for sure.
The young core producing would have to include filling the impact player roles. Rotation mainstays and middle of the order sluggers. Good luck.
This is a good article not just click bait.
I don’t know about all that. The rebuild being thrown around imo is going to be more of a period of adjustment. They won’t just burn it down.
If they really want to save some money then they should start by paying the Gibson and Lynn decline money. Then let Kittridge and Middleton go.
Sonny Gray won’t get many takers unless it’s a team willing to take on a significant financial commitment. The Cardinals will pay much of that contract down to get rid of him. Maybe LA or Washington would be interested. I say it’s realistic but I bet he’s back with the club.
Mikolas, NA and Matz aren’t leaving. No one wants them or wants to take a risk on a rebound.
Helsley is a guy that could be traded. I think the smoke is real on this one.
Contreras maybe but consider the money you are paying if you get him and the fact that he’s really a PT catcher. I could see Herrera getting looks or possibly in package with Gorman or Noot.
If we trade Gray and decline the options on Lynn and Gibson, what is the starting rotation? If we trade Contreras or Arenado and Goldy walks, what is going to be the lineup?
I know it would be a rebuild but how long will it take to be competitive? Does the scorched earth route make things happen quicker?
All free agents go.
Trade:
1)Arenado to LAD take on Taylor and Braiser (expiring after 25 contracts) with a couple A+ or AA pitchers. Has to waive a no trade clause and LAD have the money to take him and a place he’d waive to go. I think I’d take a chance on Bobby Miller too, if they want to give up on him. Former high prospect that really struggled. Still throws 100 and has the stuff (Bloom will target “stuff” and spin rates coming from Tampa Bay ideology) to move to RP if starting doesn’t work out.
2)Contreras. Could see a few teams in on him. Again target some A-AA pitching, maybe take on a expiring contract to help off set some money.
3)Gray. I think this trade will take some time with the FA market. A team in on Burns that misses out or Baltimore losing Burns.
4) Helsley. Shouldn’t be hard to find a taker. But I don’t expect a huge return. He’s 30, FA after 2025, and a RP. But still should be able to get some good young pieces.
5) Fedde. Should be multiple suitors again with a reasonable 7.5 million salary and solid production.Sign: right handed DH type if there’s not an expiring contract taken on for the spot or someone to take a chance on (ex. Torkleson if Detroit was to give up on him), and a RP like a Kendall Graveman or Jordan Romano coming off injury looking for a 1 yr rebound offer they could possibly flip at the deadline.
1. Donovan 2B (L)
2. Winn SS (R)
3. Nootbaar LF (L)
4. ??? DH/1B/RF (R)
5. Burleson 1B/DH (L)
6. Walker RF/DH (R)
7. Gorman 3B (L)
8. Herrera/Pages C (R)
9. Siani/Scott CF (L)Saggese IF (R), Taylor UT (R), Scott/Siani OF (L), Pages/Herrera C (R)
Mikolas, Matz(L), Pallante, Liberatore(L), McGreevy
Thompson(L), ???, Leahy, King(L), Graveman, Romero(L), Braiser, Fernandez
The last pen spot could be someone traded for or Kloffensten, Bedell, Roycroft, Graceffo, so on.
-Hope Mikolas, Matz, Taylor, Braiser, Graveman/Romano/whoever play well enough they can flip them in July.
-Give Liberatore another shot at SP, if it doesn’t work then King could be moved at the deadline if he’s pitching well and there’s always a need for LH relievers. Move Liberatore back to the pen and start Graceffo, Robberse, Matthews if he ready or whoever proves they are in AAA.Cuts a lot of money, get young and give them a shot to take hold of a spot moving forward, get some young pieces to develop for the future. They had a -47 run dif this year with 76 projected wins, i think this team wouldn’t be much worse.
Fedde to Kansas City for a Wacha replacement seems like a natural fit to me. I really like Wolters with KC too. If they could get him, Tyler Gentry, and another low level pitcher I’d be all over it. Gentry would give them a RH OF option with minor league options and some upside, since the Memphis OF looks to be very LH likely with Koperniak, Antico, Church.
They aren’t going to win in 2025. Play them, develop them, see who sticks. Target 2027 as a reasonable time to start being competitive with a reloaded system, cost efficient roster and not bloated contracts that were getting them nowhere anyway.
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