whom do you fire?

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Viewing 19 posts - 26 through 44 (of 44 total)
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  • #164297
    blingboy
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    Maybe Randy Flores and Gary LaRocque should be on the hot seat.

    #164302
    858booyah
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    Free

    I doubt Flores.

    I know Paul Dejong seat is getting pretty hot.

    Can he even muster .200, .300, .400 at this point before the deadline? Christ man he’s something awful!

    #164313
    TexasCard
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    I’ve given this a lot of thought the past few days. This team needs an enema. I’d start by cleaning out the entire front office, Mozeliak on down and with it the entire field staff. They all have to go and now. The front office isn’t equipping the team with top end talent required to win anything significant and the field management is unimaginative and uninspiring to put it mildly. After that it is past time some of these players are sent packing.

    #164318
    dac8b9
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    Maybe Randy Flores and Gary LaRocque should be on the hot seat.

    This is just nuts. Flores has done about as well as you could hope given the Cards typical draft position and it would be knee jerk lunacy to dismiss him. I don’t know enough about Larocques role other than he is highly valued and would likely be missed.

    Frankly this whole thread is kind of ridiculous in my opinion. We are having a bad year due to being riddled with key injuries but were in first place in our division when healthy. The issue is we don’t have the depth at Memphis we’ve had in years past to supplement the big league club and are suffering as a result. But this was always going to happen at some point after two decades of contention as a playoff caliber team every year that won two World Series and went to four. Eventually you spend so many years trying to contend now while also trying to prepare for the future, you over leverage yourself and make a run of regrettable decisions, and you end up with a disappointing year.

    That’s fine, it’s okay to have one disappointing year due to injuries and not enough depth. That’s not a reason to dismiss the entire front office because having a year like this one was inevitable. Now, does that mean I think this front office couldn’t use some new blood? Of course not, I really wish we would poach guys from the Rays or dodgers as I think we could stand to improve. Super teams are the type of teams that win it all now, 2006 and 2011 types of seasons don’t really happen like they used to. And super teams that have star talent and ridiculous depth take time to build. We’re likely at least a few years away assuming we do everything right from the draft, to international free agency, to acquiring talent through trades and mlb free agency. The fact that Dewitt would never tank makes that task even harder and I’m skeptical our current front office can do it based on the last five years of decision making. That being said, I’m not really upset about this year.

    #164320
    blingboy
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    I don’t know about all that TC. It wouldn’t matter who the uniformed staff were. We have had seasons where we were riddled with injuries. We always had guys to bring up, maybe go get a guy. Nothing anything like what we see now in the minor league system. Wholesale import of warm bodies for the upper level teams. Nothing at all to move up.

    #164336
    1982 willie
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    Dac is right, we don’t need to go crazy. I’m not saying no changes cause some change might be good. But one bad year with an unusual amount of injuries isn’t the end of the world. I’m not saying give up on the year but let’s not totally mess up next year and beyond with a roster that’s more than one or two healthy players away from being real contenders.For me personally we need to get our minors back to snuff. There also needs to be some accountabity for all these injuries. They have stats for everything surely they can find some answers to what has gone on and try to remedy it.

    #164348
    14NyquisT
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    dac… I’ve mentioned that ’17 draft for years now. That may be a reason we’re in trouble. I don’t think the situation can be fixed in two years. By then Gorman and Liberatore should be in STL. There are some good prospects at the low minors but they probably won’t be ready for 3 or four years. We have some older players at Palm Beach whose ceilings aren’t very high at this point.

    A great majority of the pitchers system-wide have been up and down and mostly inconsistent. Ralston, Prater and Paniagua are the best so far but they are still a few years away.

    I truly don’t want to sound pessimistic…. I just want to keep it real.

    #164358
    dac8b9
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    dac… I’ve mentioned that ’17 draft for years now. That may be a reason we’re in trouble. I don’t think the situation can be fixed in two years. By then Gorman and Liberatore should be in STL. There are some good prospects at the low minors but they probably won’t be ready for 3 or four years. We have some older players at Palm Beach whose ceilings aren’t very high at this point.

    A great majority of the pitchers system-wide have been up and down and mostly inconsistent. Ralston, Prater and Paniagua are the best so far but they are still a few years away.

    I truly don’t want to sound pessimistic…. I just want to keep it real.

    I hear you. Part of the projection of us doing much better in a couple years is definitely me taking a leap of faith. I think we have a lot of promising players in the lower minors who are 3-4 years away. That being said, in the near term we can count on guys like Gorman, maybe Burleson, Nootbar (at least as a potentially useful bench piece), and Liberatore in the rotation. Gorman and Liberatore could be impactful on a similar level to Carlson, and Burleson and Nootbar could be useful depth, which is something we desperately need as our bench players outside of Sosa have been a disaster.

    The real key to us improving is spending going back to normal levels (not a guarantee) and some bad contracts coming off the books in Carpenter, Fowler, Martinez and Miller. If we can make some savvy pitching signings, that could really fix a lot of our woes. I think pitching depth is going to be an issue for the next few years though. I think we could really improve if we do those things correctly, but our recent track record in free agency isn’t inspiring. I think our scouting is really good, but some of the early extensions have been truly bad mistakes. That’s why I would like them to add to our front office by poaching people from the Rays for example to help shore up our front offices weak spots.

    Mo has shown in the past that with the right people advising him, he can make really good decisions. Unfortunately there has been a real talent drain from the years where we were cutting edge that has not been sufficiently replaced.

    #164360
    gscottar
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    I agree that we need more talent in the front office. Things seem to be stale there. If you could combine our financial resources with the cutting edge creativity of the Rays, A’s, and Indians you would really have something. Those three teams are near the bottom of the payroll rankings yet are respectively first, first, and second in their divisions. And they do it almost every year. It is amazing the front office talent they have. I would love to poach some.

    #164398
    gscottar
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    Not trying to bash on Matheny and Shildt but it pains me to think we could have hired Terry Francona when TLR left. Francona is one of the best managers in the game IMO. I am pretty sure he interviewed for our job but wasn’t hired.

    #164403
    dac8b9
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    Gscottar, I think those would definitely be good organizations to poach from, particularly the Rays. I heard on a baseball podcast that the Rays owner considers investing in a large front office to be a major competitive advantage that allows them to cheap out on payroll for players because they work the margins so well. Nobody has better scouting of other organizations talent than the Rays. Because they are so forward thinking they are also way better at player development. Also, they tend to move on from players before they decline which keeps them from giving out bad contracts and let’s them replenish their system. Lot we could learn from.

    #164405
    kscardfan
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    Oneil, Bader, Carlton, Arenado,Dejong,Edman, Goldy, Yadi. Look at that lineup really close
    and tell me what you see. I’m starting to feel rather strongly that the Cards have a problem in Management.

    #164417
    ZTR
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    Its not just this year.

    The last half of 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, and until,mid- August of 2019 was essentially .500 baseball.

    The team got hot and made a Cinderella playoff run to the 2019 NLCS where their luck ran out and last year was the result of being in what was truly one of the worst divisions I have ever seen. The 4 teams that made the expanded tournament won exactly one playoff game between them.

    Being the cream of the crap last season is masking the fact that this just isn’t even close to being a good, well built team.

    This season is answering a lot of personnel questions with mostly negative results.

    There is a mountain of work to do and roster holes to fill for 2022 – about double the amount I thought there would be.

    #164422
    Euro Dandy
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    The last half of 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, and until,mid- August of 2019 was essentially .500 baseball.

    What’s the common denominator? It’s the top of the pyramid, so not a lot to be optimistic about for significant change. But the emperor sure has some nice clothes.

    #164466
    mspaid
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    This a .500 franchise. Not bad but not great. It won’t be a turkey like the Pirates but it’ll never be a juggernaut.This ownerhship group will always put a competitive team out there but never a powerhouse. Obviously 3.4 million people every year are happy with mediocrity and that’s all Junior needs to hear. There’s no pressure on Junior to do anything. I wouldn’t if I were him. He’s raking in millions every year. He’s not much of a baseball man but he is the shrewdest businessman in Baseball. If you’re a Cardinal fan and I have been for 57 years, this is the type of team you will always see with this ownership group. Get used to it and be happy.

    #165321
    dac8b9
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    FYI, viva el birdos is starting to do a series of articles evaluating Mozeliak. It looks like they are going to look at his entire tenure as president of baseball operations. They just released their first article looking at how he has done in free agency. The writer is pretty great at doing analysis-based deep dives, so this series should be really good.

    #165322
    bccran
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    Viva El Birdos does a nice job.

    #165327
    dac8b9
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    Viva El Birdos does a nice job.

    Yeah, I agree. My favorite writer they have is A.E. Schafer, who does most of their prospect stuff and has excellent articles for the draft. His draft stuff in particular is fantastic and I’m looking forward to reading what he thinks of our draft this year. By the way, he said in the comments section of his most recent article on the draft that he has Jordan Walker as our number one prospect right now. Thinks he could be a superstar and what he is doing at his age the Cardinals haven’t really seen since Taveras.

    #165338
    blingboy
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    I don’t claim to know anything about Walker except that his path to where he is has been so different from both Taveras and Pujols that I take comparisons with a dose of salt.

    He is a half season out of high school. Mostly in the Florida State League, or whatever it is called now. High A, or A+ level I think. He’s been compared to Pujols at the same age or same level maybe, don’t want to misquote Mo. Pujols had one or two years playing for a Community College by the time we drafted him, and his actual age then is not cast in stone. He played almost all of his first pro year at low A, a level below where Walker is, unless I confuse the new set up, ending with 100 ABs at Memphis. Then to MLB the next year.

    Taveras was one of the 17 year old’s brought into the Dominican Complex, and I think was 2 or 3 years in system by the time he was in A ball comparable to where Walker is now.

    I understand Walker is supremely talented and I am hopeful, but think the comparisons are pointless, given the differences. I am very interested is seeing how he is handled by the organization.

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