Way to Early Off Season 40 Man Roster and Rule 5 Protection Thread

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This topic contains 20 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by Avatar CariocaCardinal 1 year, 1 month ago.

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  • #66526
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    CariocaCardinal
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    This is tbe list from Black Hills Cardinal of those needing Rule 5 protection this off season. (I have removed Montero and added Lyons)

    Juan Alvarez
    Rayder Ascanio
    Starlin Balbuena
    Landon Beck
    Fabian Blanco
    Genesis Cabrera
    Franyel Casadilla
    Will Changarotty
    Chris Chinea
    Oneiver Diaz
    Bryan Dobzanski
    Blake Drake
    Chris Ellis
    Junior Fernandez
    Edwin Figuera
    Luis Flores
    Elniery Garcia
    Jose Godoy
    Dariel Gomez
    Junior Gonzalez
    Ryan Helsley
    Kevin Herget
    Tommy Layne
    Joshua Lopez
    Andres Luna
    Tyler Lyons
    Jose Alex Martinez
    Ryan McCarvel
    Yeison Medina
    Alex Mejia
    Casey Meisner
    Johan Mieses
    Andrew Morales
    Angel Moreno
    Edward Mujica
    John Nogowski
    David Oca
    Brian O’Keefe
    Dennis Ortega
    Mitchell Osnowitz
    Matt Pearce
    Enrique Perez
    Yefri Perez
    Rangel Ravelo
    Victor Roache
    Ramon Santos
    Max Schrock
    Jean Selmo
    Lane Thomas
    Wilfredo Tovar
    Ramon Urias
    Ronnie Williams
    Alexis Wilson
    Wadye Ynfante
    Roel Ramirez

    #66528
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    CariocaCardinal
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    Link.to current 40 man roster
    http://m.cardinals.mlb.com/stl/roster/40-man/

    There are actually 45 on the 40 man roster since we have 5 on the 60 day DL

    Ross,Wainwright, Norris, and Adams all have expiring contracts and will be automatically removed at the end of the season.

    The team will still need to remove one player (I think they have until 6 days after the end of the world series to do so.)

    Most likely removal candidates without trades are Bowman, Sheriff, Pena, Greg Garcia, and Wisdom.

    #66534
    BlackHillsCard
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    You can add Pena to the list of guys with expiring contracts.

    #66537
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    CariocaCardinal
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    I originally thought that also about Pena but he stays on the 40 man roster because he is not FA eligible. He wont even be arb eligible. So he is no different than say Munoz in terms of his contract status

    #66576
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    Bw52
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    IMHO I would figure out a way to keep these guys
    Ryan Helsley RHP-young pitcher with big potential
    Genesis Cabrera LHP-LHP with potential
    Casey Meisner RHP-solid young RHP
    Lane Thomas OF-young (23) kid who is finally healthy and showing power and speed and defense.
    Ramon Urias INF-solid guy for INF
    Max Schrock 2B-solid contact guy.Can fill a role.

    #66582
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    UncleDenny
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    Junior Fernandez and Roel Ramirez pitchers with promise.

    #66597
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    CariocaCardinal
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    This is my list and the order I would protect them in.

    Helsley
    Urias
    Thomas
    Cabrera
    Shrock
    Fernandez
    Ortega
    Ellis
    Ramirez
    Dobzanski
    Lyons
    Infante
    Meisner

    This is my list and the order I would protect them in.

    Helsley
    Urias
    Thomas
    Cabrera
    Shrock
    Fernandez
    Ortega
    Ellis
    Ramirez
    Dobzanski
    Lyons
    Infante
    Meisner

    I would like to protect tbe first 6. The others would be a blow to our depth if we lost them but would not be disastorous. Also, beyond the first 6 the chance of losing them is much less. The reality is I dont see us being able to protect more than 4 of them Mo needs to get busy!

    #66598
    stlcard25
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    Looking at the 40 man, we currently have 45 players on it with 5 on the 60 day DL:

    Fowler
    Waino
    Leone
    Gregerson
    Reyes

    Dex, Gregerson and Reyes are done for the year and Waino and Leone will be activated. So we’ll see what moves will be made soon.

    The following guys will be free agents after the year:

    Waino
    Norris
    Ross
    Adams

    Here are the young guys on the 40 who have been mostly minor Leaguers so far:

    Gallegos
    D Gonzalez
    C Greene
    Webb
    Kelly
    Sosa
    Wisdom
    A Garcia
    Williams

    Vets not currently in MLB:

    Bowman
    Brebbia
    Sherriff

    Looking at the lists here, if we resign none of the free agents (and only Norris is even a possibility), that leaves 41 on the roster. So more pruning would be needed.

    Full disclosure: I fully believe a trade of multiple players from the 40 man will happen this offseason. I’m not sure for who or who will be traded, but I’ll have some ideas after the season.

    #66599
    stlcard25
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    I wanted to split my posts up a bit so I didn’t pull a jager, hehe. So here’s my thinking on who’s who.

    I’m imagining either Norris resigns or we acquire a closer through free agency. So I’ll put the number at 41.

    Rule 5 guys I’d like to protect:

    Helsley
    Cabrera
    Thomas
    Schrock
    Fernandez (?)
    Ortega (?)

    The last two are guys that I’m not 100% sure would be picked so I’m not certain that the Cards would have to protect them. So we’ll look at who left at the end here before taking the risk.

    Players from the young group who are pretty certain to be kept:

    Gallegos
    Kelly
    A Garcia
    Williams

    Players who are at risk, or likely to be dropped:

    D Gonzalez
    C Greene
    Webb
    Sosa
    Wisdom

    TBH I wouldn’t feel too sad if the Cards dropped all five of these guys to give the Rule 5ers a shot. But of this group I’d bet on Gonzalez, Webb and Wisdom being gone. This takes us to 38 (+6).

    Vets who are likely to be kept:

    Brebbia
    Sherriff

    Vets who should worry:

    Bowman

    I think Bowman’s time is just up. He can’t stay healthy and with so many better ground ball relievers, he’s expendable.

    So we are now at 37 (+6)

    Who else might be able to go? From the 25 man, Garcia and Peña stick out as guys who are possibly on the chopping block. Losing the LH bench bat is a bit tough, but Muñoz looks like a newer, cheaper Garcia with more pop and less patience (and maybe less defense). I’d imagine we could get something for Garcia in a trade, maybe a lotto ticket reliever or something from a low level.

    So we’re left at 35.

    Given what has been mentioned above, I’m not sure it’ll come to this but between the two, Fernandez is a safer bet to protect as some might pick him and stash him, and Ortega plays a well stocked position in our farm (and is still in Peoria).

    So I guess I’d leave it with:

    Drops

    D Gonzalez
    Webb
    Wisdom
    Bowman
    G Garcia
    Peña

    Adds

    Helsley
    Cabrera
    Thomas
    Schrock
    Fernandez

    #66606
    BlackHillsCard
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    This does kind of take us back to why did the FO add Adolis Garcia to the 40-man at the time when they added him? They could have called up Williams or Sosa. I feel that spot was wasted.

    #66612
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    CariocaCardinal
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    I was vocal at the time about the lunacy of the promotion/roster spot for A. Garcia. Still dont understand it.

    #66613
    stlcard25
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    I’m pretty confident that the front office knew what they were doing when they decided that. Either they felt that Garcia was the best option in the OF, that he was most likely to be traded in the offseason, or both.

    #66615
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    CariocaCardinal
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    I agree with Bowman being removed.

    I dont see them keeping Sheriff either. He will be out half of next season, you dont know how effective he will be when he comes back, and I am sure the team is not happy with him getting surgery and not telling them.

    Webb is a lefty that performed well. Shildt did not hesitste to use him in high leverage situations. I think he stays.

    Gonzalez has pitched well.since coming back from injury. Maddox talked highly of him in the Spring. I think he stays.

    C.Greene has been pretty good since being moved to relief. I guess his future lies in whether the Cards think he can continue to improve his control. Even if they divorce themselves from him he probably has trade value.

    I would prefer the team trade Kelly and keep Pena. But if not, I agree Pena is gone. He may accept a minor league deal from us if he cant get a major league contract.

    Sosa is a really tough call. He is the only elite SS defender near the majors. My guess is the team decides they can backfill defensevily at Memphis with a minor league FA so Sosa could definitely be traded/waived.

    G.Garcia will.probably make about $2.5 million in arb next year. He is a bargain at that price on the FA market so he should have trade value. With Munoz on board I expect a trade.

    I was impressed by Wisdom’s short time here but there just seems to be no room for him.

    #66616
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    CariocaCardinal
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    Garcia was probably the best short term option. But was he enough of an upgrade over Williams or Thomas for 10 ab’s to risk losing another valuable player over the Winter?

    #66618
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    Bw52
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    CC-why in the hell keep Pena and trade Kelly.Kelly is miles ahead of Pena defensively and Pena cant hit .Pena has been a 3rd catcher his entire career .Not knocking him but he is what he is.Kelly is a big step up over Pena.Its time for the Cards to give Kelly playing time when resting Molina and stop worrying about how Molina`s feelings.Pena is absolutely not threat to Molina.

    #66620
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    CariocaCardinal
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    I see no value to keeping Kelly on the bench. Shildt seems no different than Matheny with regards to Yadi’s playing time. It would of course depend on what we could back for Kelly.

    #66624
    stlcard25
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    Kelly and Weaver would be a good start to trading for an impact player.

    #66625
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    CariocaCardinal
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    So to summerize what I wrote above:

    I see the following removals by waiver or trade;

    Bowman
    Sheriff
    Gonzalez or Greene (but not both)
    Pena
    Sosa
    Wisdom
    Garcia

    That creates 7 spots. One is needed to bring the roster down to 40 when all players come off the 60 day dl. That leaves 6 for adds for Rule 5 protection and free agents.

    #66628
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    PadsFS
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    Why would Urias get a 40 man spot over Wisdom? I don’t see that.

    #66629
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    CariocaCardinal
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    Pads, for me, Urias has more upside. More importantly, he is more versitile. But it is a fair question.

    #66637
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    CariocaCardinal
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    Two moves need to be made in the next couple of weeks to accommodate Wainwright and Leone coming off the 60 day dl. Up to two more moves will need to made shortly after the World Series. One to open up a spot for the remaining players to come off the 60 day DL and a second if they want to give a roster spot to Urias or he will become a minor league FA.

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