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Noot is the guy that has the highest value that we can afford to trade. May need to throw in another lesser piece or two for Gilbert from Seattle. The trade value is even. If Seattle says no, look for another cost controlled young starter. Someone besides Mo will be in love with Noot. Than consider keeping DC. I think he bounces back next year.
If they trade Noot it creates two holes to fill. A starting outfielder and a 1-2 batter in the lineup.
Yes. Then you need a proven top of the order hitter with suitable OBP, and you need a proven DH since Donovan would be in the outfield every day.
Donovan would be my leadoff hitter and Contreras would be DH but I’m sure the Cardinal brass will have other ideas.
If they trade Noot it creates two holes to fill. A starting outfielder and a 1-2 batter in the lineup.
I don’t see it that way. Tommy and Winn lead off. Winn is coming around with his obp and we know he has the speed. Donovan hits second. Donovan lf Tommy cf Walker rf. DC fourth outfielder. You are going to have to give a core player in trade for A cost controlled pitcher. That’s my preference over Gorman, who would be the next guy to consider moving who is actually worth something. Remember, Donovan or Tommy neither one move the needle to get the guy we need.
The issue is you need two high OBP hitters ahead of the middle of the order power bats. We didn’t have both Noot and Donovan healthy and producing normally all this year just about. So Goldschmid ended up batting second. I do not think much of Marmol, but I doubt he would have moved reigning MVP Goldy out of the 3 slot if he had anybody else who could hold down a top of the order slot. If either of those two is traded then either we need a replacemant top of the order guy, or Goldy will end up hitting second again. That will suck as much next year as it did this year, and I have to believe Mo will not construct a roster like that.
There are issues created with trading any of our 9 everyday starter type players. If Mo trades any of them, he is creating another problem to solve, and we do not have the solutions in house. If we improve the pitching staff, but do not effectively fill any holes created by trades, then we are running in place.
edit: Edman has a low career and current OBP. He is not a top of order hitter.
I understand the need for an effective 1-2 in the batting order so that Goldy bats 3rd. I want like crazy for Winn to get his ops up high enough to bat leadoff. But we can’t wish it so. If he can’t, what about Donovan leading off and Walker second? I like Noot. But I also like pitching, and we don’t have it and we can’t acquire enough through free agency. Noot, Winn, Gorman, Walker. Those are the guys that will bring you quality pitching and the order in which I would be willing to trade.
Trading guys like Gorman and Noot for young, high end, cheapish pitching doesn’t mean the lineup would be decimated because if the young pitchers you acquire are cheap enough you can then turn around and sign someone like Cody Bellinger as a free agent.
gscottar I agree Mo could follow that path, and there is something to be said for it. It seems like there is a lot more injury risk with a multi year contract to a pitcher than with a position player. So rather than signing a FA pitcher, trade for a pre FA pitcher with some years of control and sign a FA position player to plug the lineup hole.
The main points I has wanted to make are that we would need to replace any lineup regular who gets traded, and we don’t have proven replacements in house for any of them. I don’t have a feel for how Mo will approach it, but we should remember the possible gun shy factor. There is already a lot of top shelf young talent playing elsewhere.
Trading guys like Gorman and Noot for young, high end, cheapish pitching doesn’t mean the lineup would be decimated because if the young pitchers you acquire are cheap enough you can then turn around and sign someone like Cody Bellinger as a free agent.
This is true, though Bellinger will likely cost more than some pitchers this offseason.
IMHO, when your system produces guys like Walker, Gorman, and Winn, you sure don’t trade them.
I have to disagree on Walker. If you are 21 and can’t field, I don’t expect you to be able to field at 23. I have more hope for Winn hitting at 23 than I do for Walker fielding.
In that case, I would be willing to trade Walker for pitching.
Walker can field. First or third. But we already have those guys. Rf was a brand new position being learned at the major league level. That’s where he will remain until he either gets at or above league average or first or third become available.
I agree that they won’t move Walker off RF for 2024. I also don’t know if he will become league average out there, but I am mindful that it is us rather than the Cards brass that mentions league average as what will be good enough. I don’t know what Mo thinks will be good enough.
The other thing is I would not assume Walker could play everyday 3B at the ML level. It is my understanding he did OK there in The Texas League and below.
Let’s compare 3B.
Juan Yepez
A Ball (2017) – 19 Errors/.888 Fielding %
A+ (2018) – 0 Errors/1.000 Fielding %
A/A+/AA (2019) – 1 Error/.977 Fielding %
AA/AAA (2021) – 3 Errors/.923 Fielding %
AAA (2022) – 1 Error/.923 Fielding %Jordan Walker
A/A+ (2021) – 22 Errors/.876 Fielding %
AA (2022) – 18 Errors/.905 Fielding %My understanding on the subject is based on what I’ve read on the site. I guess I should have said that I’ve heard it said by various participants here that Walker did OK at 3rd in the minors. We do tend to look at the hypes and see what is supposed to be seen when looking at the hypes.
You never tinker with the core of your nest egg. But in the case of the pitching starved St. Louis Cardinals, I’m afraid one of these “untouchables” will be leaving. It should go without saying that the core of the St. Louis nest egg consists of Walker, Winn, Nooty, Edman, Gorman and Saggese. As I see things, either Gorman or Nooty will be leaving via trade. As much as I hate seeing him go, we’re going to have to say goodbye to Donovan too. And when you look closely at Jordan Walker what do you see? A right fielder? A 3rd baseman? A DH? Of course not. You just do not use a young athletic enormously talented player like a Walker as a DH or you’ll zap the energy and focus right out of him. Jordan Walker will be the heir apparent to Goldy at 1st base. And who better to show him the ropes than Goldy?
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