Strategy for the Lat Two Months of the Season

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This topic contains 16 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by Avatar Cardinals2016 1 year, 2 months ago.

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  • #62305
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    CariocaCardinal
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    Note: the Post title should read “last”.

    Let me preface this that I do not believe the Cardinals have a realistic chance at the playoffs this year. I challenge anyone who believes otherwise to make a contrary case based on the team’s record, games behind, and teams in front of them.

    1) Release Holland and Lyons. Holland will be a free agent at the end of the year and Lyons is a non-tender candidate if I have ever seen one.

    2) Trade Norris. Seeing what the Jays got for Oh, I am salivating what we could get for Norris. I would not be surprised to see the Cards sign Norris long term but that does preclude a trade for the rest of this season.

    3) Attempt to get max value for Ozuna and Gyrko. My guess is they have more value now than in the off season. I dont see either of these two has providing significant long term value to the team and that their production can not be readily replicated by others and at a cheaper cost over the next year or two.

    4) Give the long term underwater contracts (Fowler, Gregerson, Cecil, and Ozuna if not traded) maximum playing time in order to restablish some value. I realize this strategy will not sit well with many who want to play the youngsters and are tired of losing but it is the best long term move for the team.

    5) Find a position for Munoz or decide he is best as a utility player. Finding a position for Munoz could do a lot to allow the Cards to focus on other areas in the off season.

    6) Figure out who should be in the long term starting rotation. We have 9-10 internal candidates. We need to decide who is a starter, who is a reliever, and who should be traded.

    7) See if Layne or Webb are possible Loogy solutions

    8) See if Schrock Mercado, and O’Neill are ready. This is needed but subordinate to other strategic steps I have listed.

    #62318
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    Bw52
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    You make some good points CC.I agree..that Cards are not a playoff team…no matter what happens.1.Agree about Holland-I think he is a lost cause.Lyons-undecided..i think he needs to be sent down to try and regain his form..if he has to pass thru waivers.so be it..Slim chance he gets picked up by anyone.
    2.Agree
    3.Why not see who is interested.
    4.Don`t like it but I understand it.
    5.Could be Munoz can be the supersub jack of all trades who plays everywhere and gets 400 ABs a season.
    6.Yes.
    7. yes
    8.Yes.When O`neill does come up again he needs to gets regular playing time..not 1 or 2 starts a week and some pinch-hit ABs.
    I will add this point also.
    9.Do not trade any of the young SPs.

    #62327
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    CariocaCardinal
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    Thanks BW52 for the polite, direct, and concise respone.

    If you dont trade any of the young SP, how do you get value from it? Just like Kelly in Memphis it does minimal good to use valuable assets as mere insurance policies. You also need to clear a few 40 man roster spots.

    #62338
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    mudville
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    I just don’t understand what happened to Lyon’s slider. It was almost unhittable last year. Before the start of this season, I thought he could be used as a closer at times.

    I just can’t help but wonder how much some of our players were damaged by a lackadaisical ST, and an overall lack of discipline. Also, I’m not into bashing MM while he’s down. Just trying to understand why so much so many players are having a bad season at the same time. I still think there’s enough talent on this team to seriously contend for a playoff spot.

    #62342
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    Bw52
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    CC-the reason I want to hold on to the young SPs is because of the Wacha injury history,CMart having several bumps and bruises this season.Mikolas has been very good so far but what if he suddenly reverts to pre-2018 form?Also no sure thing that Alex Reyes can come back and be a productive durable SP.

    #62346
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    CariocaCardinal
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    I need to add another

    9)Give Wisdom an audition to find out if he has a future in the organization.

    #62350
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    Bw52
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    CC-Good catch-Agree-think he deserves at least a September audition.

    #62355
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    2011 seems forever
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    You make some valid points Carioca. Although I can neither agree nor disagree with some of them but 1 I will not agree with is that we have no realistic chance of making the playoffs. This may be true but in my 35 plus years of watching baseball and following the Cardinals, I’ve seen some crazy things. I’ve seen the Giants with 9.5 game lead at the break only not to make the playoffs, a Cardinals team trail by 8.5 games entering September to only win the World Series. I’ve seen Cardinals teams start strong then finish weak, Cardinal teams to start week and finish strong and sometimes that strong finish leads to a post season run, sometimes it doesn’t but that’s the beauty of baseball. I will say we have more of a realistic chance to get in the playoffs as a wild card team and not via a division title but I don’t have any numbers or concrete proof that backs up that statement other than I am just a loyal Cardinals fan who believes and will never give up hope when we still have a fighting chance. I realize our play has been inconsistent through the first 102 games of the season and we’ve shown no signs of turning it around but as a loyal fan I believe we will and sooner than later whether we do or not remains to be seen. However with 60 games left, 4.5 games out for a wild card spot and playing the teams in front of us 28 more times… Am I giving upon the season? No freakin chance I will give up on my Cardinals because Like I said in 35 plus years, I have seen some crazy things happen especially in the stretch run.

    #62361
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    14NyquisT
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    The organization should be looking to unload the dead weight which ever way makes the most sense. The FO needs to open spots in order to see what we have on the farm. I think most agree with that and have stated so. The FO really sees things the same way. They have an awful lot of mistakes to cover up and they must think of the bottom line. To save face they’ll give us phony excuses as to why they proceed as they do.

    If the Cards make it to the play-offs at this point it will go down in the annuls of baseball as the “2018 Miracle Cards”. The team we have now just doesn’t have any of the qualities needed for such a feat.(grit, playing hungry, motivated, optimistic and hard working). See not one. There is no need for any Cardinal fan to suffer through each game thinking “if only”. The team is FUBAR.

    Mozeliak will be dictating to Schiltz who will play and who won’t.

    BTW…. has anyone heard if the FO is still claiming that we are play-off contenders?

    #62363
    stlcard25
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    Mozeliak will be dictating to Schiltz who will play and who won’t.

    I’m not sure if you’re meaning this derogatorily or if it’s just a mistake, but as an FYI his name is Shildt.

    #62370
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    PadsFS
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    If we part ways with Ozuna, who do you put in the outfield regularly? Bader? O’Neill?

    I still think Ozuna has value. I see him having a big year next year or, at a minimum, a better year than a rookie O’Neill or Bader.

    #62371
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    gscottar
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    CC, I agree with your list except for #4. I would put Gregerson and Cecil in the release line item. I have no reason to believe they are going to add value nor do I care what they are owed. We shouldn’t have to lose ballgames just because they were given a bad contract. Eat the money and move on.

    I would also try to trade Ozuna. Yes, I am familiar with the term selling low but again I have no reason to believe he is going to increase his value. Why? Because he is obviously injured and it may be a serious injury. I would cash out, get what we can for him, and let some other team deal with is pending rehab.

    As for Fowler, I don’t have a problem letting him stay the next two months to try to regain some value because I think he actually can, however, I would try to trade him in the offseason even if we have to eat a significant portion of the contract.

    Look, no one likes to eat money but there is now way around it. Just like we did with Leake we are going to be doing it with Holland, Cecil, Gregerson, Fowler, and perhaps Lyons although he is just year to year.

    This team made some bad decisions and it is time to deal with it. The good news is that this organization has the financial resources to eat some money and still field a competitive team. In my opinion the best way to do that is to spend money on bullpen and defense and a decent LH bat. We already have a great rotation. We don’t have to go crazy this winter and go after Harper or Machado. There are less expensive ways to do it as I have outlined in other threads.

    #62670
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    14NyquisT
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    After Friday Mozeliak has been chomping away on the money he spent so unwisely. hopefully he’ll have some room left for the rest of the ‘mistakes’ he brought in. get him a bottle of some good bar-b-q sauce and have him ready for the deadline. bon apetit el mozo.

    #62671
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    14NyquisT
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    After Friday Mozeliak has been chomping away on the money he spent so unwisely. hopefully he’ll have some room left for the rest of the ‘mistakes’ he brought in. get him a bottle of some good bar-b-q sauce and have him ready for the deadline. bon apetit el mozo.

    #62757
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    Cardinals2016
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    Well, CC:
    1. You got your wish here
    2. I agree, Norris should be traded for assets right now, even though we just took two in a row from the Cubs
    3. Cleveland is looking for both an outfielder and a second baseman. The stars are aligned.
    4. I strongly disagree with giving Fowler maximum playing time. His defense has earned him bench duty until he begs the front office to trade him away.
    5. Hey, if we trade away Pham like I suggested in the Trade Ideas thread and Ozuna goes to Cleveland, then Munoz has a spot in the outfield with Bader and O’Neill.
    6. If we DFA Cecil and Gregorson, they all get their chances…
    7. You got your wish on Webb….
    8. Agree with O’Neill, there is nothing left for him to prove in AAA. The other two can probably start next year in AAA.

    #62798
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    blingboy
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    I think control-ability will be a recurring theme the rest of the year like with the Sam Tui trade.

    #63651
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    Cardinals2016
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    Well, CC, you are also getting your wish on #4, as the Cardinals continue to start Fowler every game even though he is a detriment to the team.

    They’d probably be using Gregerson every game, but he is now out for the year. I guess we can hope for the same with Cecil.

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