- This topic has 7 replies, 6 voices, and was last updated 5 years, 4 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
I know this is a little off the beaten path for a topic but here goes.
Can anybody tell me how in the world Steve Carlton won 20 games for the 1971 Cardinals? He pitched 273 innings but gave up a ton of hits and a ton of walks. I think he gave up 275 hits and nearly 100 walks, I think it was 98. Plus his ERA was 3.56 which, for 1971, is only fair at the best.
How on earth did he win 20 games that year with numbers like that???
Any oldtimers out there that could chime in? BikeMike, perhaps?
r/Esteemed Rat
What’s interesting about this is you could also look at 1970, when Carlton went 10-19, and wonder how his W-L could be that bad. He had similar WHIPs in both ‘70 and ‘71, yet went 20-9 in ‘71 after the 19 loss year.
Obviously the breaks evened out for him in ‘71.
Another oddity about ‘70, is he had a 4.4 WAR, third on the team behind Bob Gibson and Joe Torre, and higher than Richie Allen who hit 34 homers and drove in 101. But Dick only played about 3/4 of the season.
His 1971 WAR was similar at 4.2. He was essentially the same pitcher both years, but his W-L marks were almost exactly flip-flopped.
A lot of things about Carlton didn’t make sense. His record setting 19 K outing in a losing effort in 69 set it all up. Then he won 27 in 72, nearly half the Phil’s total wins, and 30 CGs.
How many times have we been told by the metrics crowd that wins don’t matter? Look at all the stats except wins and it will all make sense.
Back in those days the starters almost always got the decision because they pitched at least 8 innings every game, so a pitcher could pile up wins even if they weren’t overly dominant. In 1979, Phil Niekro went 21-20 for the Braves after going 19-18 in 1978.
Nowadays a starter gets a huge pat on the back if they can last 6 innings.
Back in those days the starters almost always got the decision because they pitched at least 8 innings every game,
Which means a pitcher’s W-L record was a much more telling stat back in Lefty’s day.
One of my sons and I go and watch little league games sometimes, just to sit in the stands with a beer and a dog and watch baseball. You wouldn’t believe how hard some of those kids throw. 14-15 years old. Without benefit of high level coaching on mechanics. I often wonder how torn up their arms are getting.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.