October 23, 2017 at 2:18 pm #36681gscottarParticipantPaid - Annual
Per Jennifer Langosch:
Jose Oquendo back as 3B Coach
Schildt to bench coach
Willie McGee on staff in some capacityOctober 23, 2017 at 2:25 pm #36682LoganAlpha30X7ParticipantFree
Almost makes me wonder if they’re getting things set up in case Matheny fails again…so that they’d already have the next manager on staff…or just think that they really need the change…October 23, 2017 at 5:11 pm #36693October 23, 2017 at 5:27 pm #36694
Or maybe all the hubbub about Owen do not liking Matheny was all overblown or nonexistentOctober 23, 2017 at 6:04 pm #36700
Jager, you can believe what you want to believe, and it may not have been personal, but there were concerns. According to the P-D, Mo went to talk with Oquendo in person about returning. I am willing to bet a considerable amount that the discussion was not centered on the condition of Oquendo’s knees.
Hey, at least if they don’t hire Hickey, Mo’s trip to Florida wasn’t a total waste! 😉October 23, 2017 at 6:16 pm #36701UConn CardModeratorPaid - Annual
HALLELUJAH!!October 23, 2017 at 6:18 pm #36702
UConn, I am guessing Yadi’s reaction was very similar to yours!October 23, 2017 at 6:38 pm #36704RatsbuddyParticipantFree
I doubt that Oquendo is going to work miracles for us. I just hope he can stop the poor baserunning and mental lapses including those by our defense.
r/RatOctober 23, 2017 at 6:42 pm #36705UConn CardModeratorPaid - Annual
Bet it was too, Brian!
Rat, who’s asking for miracles? I’ll take solid defense and baserunning. I’d like to think that won’t take a miracle.October 23, 2017 at 8:19 pm #36707CardsRedSox4EverParticipantFree
Positive coaching changes. Maybe McGee can take over as batting coach (.295BA/.729OPS) and let Mabry pine tar bats for a year. Couldn’t hurt. Oquendo will certainly help with base running and defense. So far, so good.October 23, 2017 at 9:31 pm #36709CariocaCardinalParticipantPaid - Monthly
Has there ever been a 3rd base coach with a cane?October 23, 2017 at 10:05 pm #36714
I know you are joking, but I have watched Oquendo on his feet for multiple hours at a time over multiple days during camps and he looked totally normal. The knee surgery limitation narrative has to lose its strength after more than two years.October 24, 2017 at 7:48 am #36725PadsFSParticipantFree
Positive coaching changes. Maybe McGee can take over as batting coach (.295BA/.729OPS) and let Mabry pine tar bats for a year. Couldn’t hurt. Oquendo will certainly help with base running and defense. So far, so good.
Mabry’s career OPS is .727.October 24, 2017 at 9:53 am #36749
I dunno Brian… Oquendo healing for a year after surgery and being away makes sense…being down in Florida after that working at his own pace without all the flying and day to day stresses of 3B coaching
Mo going down there to personally chat with him is interesting but far from proof of a rift between him and Matheny….it could just as easily be trying to coax and convince a guy who was basically retired to come out of retirement after an injury put him there and he realized he liked it…
could there ALSO be some disagreements in coaching styles? sure…id kind of expect there to be with any set of coaches…but Oquendo did not stop being 3b coach he had a n injury that forced him out…deciding to come back or not is a totally different question
I am all for reinterpreting the situation and facts though… will you post the quotes and articles with the sources for the “rift” line of thinking?October 24, 2017 at 10:37 am #36751
Jager, Oquendo was out for two seasons, not one. One example of a rumored issue was originally posted on page 7 of the Matheny thread.
The Belleville News-Democrat discussed a potential Matheny-Oquendo rift.
Not many put rumors into print, though there was also speculation when Oquendo declined to participate in the 1987 reunion held just two months ago.
I am not going into details on the public forum, but I have spoken with several very knowledgeable people about the situation over the last two seasons, which is behind my belief there was more than meets the eye.
FWIW, even bccran, after checking with his sources, seemed to agree there may have been something going on behind the scenes.
Like I said, believe what you want. Short of one of the principals going on record, which they have been wisely very careful to avoid all this time, there is no “proof”. The messages for public consumption will remain totally positive, as one would hope and expect.October 24, 2017 at 11:09 am #36755
So, with Oquendo returning, any guesses on which number Paul DeJong will switch to?October 24, 2017 at 11:42 am #36759
while it may have been clunky..i did express it was TWO years…. (first year healing from injury…after that working at his own pace… it is in my first line of my post)
and i know of that article but not really any proof
i did forget the 1987 reunion thing…though is that really a slight at MM? seems a weird way to take it out on MM. To me that reads more as a problem with MOz or the front office more than MM, as MM has nothign to do with that old team and not showing up for his old teammates really doesnt hurt MM in any way…it does kind of slap the front office in the face though
as for your inside sources…i dont see why you’d lie so i dont mind taking them into account, and to be honest it isnt that i think there is NOTHING to some behind the scenes issues it is just that i think often people take small things and blow them up to be more than they actually are…it dosnt mean that the smoke that started the discussion didnt exist it just didnt need to be more than smoke yet can often turn into a blaze
At the end of the day, i think there was something that happened with MM or the organization, but it couldnt have been so bad for Oquendo as he didnt leave the organization and now he is back manning his post at 3b….
disagreements or fights or hurt feelings or whatever happen in the clubhouse or the boardroom or the dugout or the practice fields or wherever…that doesnt mean that leads to total breaks or no ways to mend the problems…
was there a rift? we will never know for sure… but what we do know is that it wasnt a rift to the point that forced Oquendo to leave the organization or make him not come back…October 24, 2017 at 12:36 pm #36770
Yes, something apparently happened and it has been addressed. No argument from me on that.October 24, 2017 at 1:50 pm #36785
Here is a factoid I unearthed to further illustrate the need for the team to re-generate hope from the fan base.
Two years ago, the Cards sold out 37 regular season home dates. This year, despite what appeared to be heavier ticket discounting, they sold out just 14. The announced total was still high, 3.4 MM, but there looks to be considerable softness behind it.October 24, 2017 at 2:09 pm #36787
very interesting…definitely soft
though with a 100 win team is that the best bar for measurement?
what was it the year before?October 24, 2017 at 4:35 pm #36792
You may be sorry you asked. I could have made it appear even worse by noting that the Cardinals had 52 sellouts in 2014. Here are exact counts from the last four years – 52, 37, 19, 14.October 24, 2017 at 4:51 pm #36795TexasCardParticipantFree
The best baseball fans anywhere know the game and they know a substandard product. They will still show up but not in the numbers that a legitimate contender would generate. Bottom line they have to get something worth watching in the lineup. They have to go find a star or two to make it worth folks time to invest 3 hours a day during the spring, summer and early fall.October 24, 2017 at 6:34 pm #36800CardsRedSox4EverParticipantFree
Pads, you are correct about Mabry’s OPS of course. I was only pointing out McGee’s credibility as a hitter. Mabry, unfortunately, was fairly ineffective at improving talent — Grichuk, Piscotty, Carpenter, to name three, plus the team’s overall situational hitting. A change in batting coach would be welcome IMHO.October 24, 2017 at 10:12 pm #36817
Bernie Miklasz sees this as a “get rid of Matheny’s coaches and bring in Mo’s coaches”. I don’t think I would buy that unless Matheny really chose the guys who were let go. Didn’t the front office pick the previous guys, too?October 25, 2017 at 9:16 am #36837
Brian…why would i be sorry i asked? I have no agenda…. i wanted the information to have a better idea instead of just using the 100 win season sellout number as that seemed a high water mark for regular season success (which to me seems linked to overall larger attendances in theory)
i appreciate the information as that is not something i readily know where to find
can you go farther back than 4 years?
It would be interesting to see how the sellouts mirror the regular season successes over the years
it would also be interesting to see how those sellouts are spread out over the year…and relate that to the team’s early season record
-this past year i think was undone because of the early season struggles in wins and losses combined with the poor fundamentals…even though the team was in it all year the team “felt” like it was bad because of that early season problems and i think the low sellouts are probably indicative of that
-the year before last…i kind of blame the Cubs running away early with the division having a huge lead in the standings that made people stay away…again…they were in ti all year, but looking at the standings every day and seeing the Cubs up by double digits in the divisions just makes you “feel” like the team isnt worth going to watch
-the 100 win season was a fun ride, we were up all year and only stalled at the end of the year IMO when the injuries really piled up…that high win total and leading the division definitely gets people into the park…but really was the team that much better than the last two years?
-2014 was coming off our WS appearance so sellouts would seem to be a given after a run like that…and the team was good and was good enough to make the NLCS…they won 90 games and were in 1st for 45 days (1.3 of the season ish)…the division was tight the whole year with us never being in 1st by more than 4.5…and we were behind by 6.5 at one point that season too…a tight race where we are in the lead 1/3 of the time, coming off a WS appearance and a good team sellouts seem obvious
again…i think sellouts are definitely an interesting thing to look at and the last 2 years are definitely telling…i just want to see more information…that is my agenda
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